Page 2 of 137 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
52
102
... LastLast
  1. #21
    The monk playstyle has definitely changed in feel and flow, but I recommend holding any final judgement till you get a few levels into Legion (gives time to do something other than HFC and pile on the annoyance). I'd also recommend giving Vengeance Demon Hunter a bash if you're really missing the spammy style since it does feel similar to WoD Brewmaster as well (~")~.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
    Play Monster Hunter? Here's my FC: 1779-0791-2717

    Thanks Shyama for the awesome Signature

  2. #22
    we almost cleared today i think we are solid the only thing we lack is dmg

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Julmara View Post
    we almost cleared today i think we are solid the only thing we lack is dmg
    FYI: The only real progression tank for the first raids in Legion is Warrior. Prot Warrior is Monk in BRF level overpowered and the other tanks are not really viable in comparison. Ultimatum + Never Surrender + Vengeance + Dragon Scales means Warrior can spend 30 Rage to generate absorb shields on the order of >10,000% AP, which works out to about double the size of their health bar. They can do this several times in succession, meaning they don't really take damage. On top of that, they have Inspiring Presence which is so strong it's basically mandatory to have it in a progression raid. No other class/spec gets a raid utility talent anywhere in the same league as that one.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    FYI: The only real progression tank for the first raids in Legion is Warrior. Prot Warrior is Monk in BRF level overpowered and the other tanks are not really viable in comparison. Ultimatum + Never Surrender + Vengeance + Dragon Scales means Warrior can spend 30 Rage to generate absorb shields on the order of >10,000% AP, which works out to about double the size of their health bar. They can do this several times in succession, meaning they don't really take damage. On top of that, they have Inspiring Presence which is so strong it's basically mandatory to have it in a progression raid. No other class/spec gets a raid utility talent anywhere in the same league as that one.
    The hyperbole is strong in this one.

    Inspiring Presence is a great utility passive, Mandatory it is not. It will take a fight with constant ticking raid damage for it to really shine and those fights are rare.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2016-07-20 at 11:20 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The hyperbole is strong in this one.

    Inspiring Presence is a great utility passive, Mandatory it is not. It will take a fight with constant ticking raid damage for it to really shine and those fights are rare.
    3% Leech on the entire raid for simply bringing what is already the best tank with otherwise no other cost is mandatory. That's literally more than half an extra healer's worth of HPS.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    3% Leech on the entire raid for simply bringing what is already the best tank with otherwise no other cost is mandatory. That's literally more than half an extra healer's worth of HPS.
    When the vast majority of it will be over healing, no it's not half a healers HPS.

    Best tank is highly debatable. Acting like Guardian's aren't in the equation and Prot War is hands down the best loses all credibility with me.

    Again, it will shine on a fight with constant raid wide damage and be borderline irrelevant elsewhere but that's all you can really expect out of tank utility these days is to have a place on a certain fight.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    When the vast majority of it will be over healing, no it's not half a healers HPS.

    Best tank is highly debatable. Acting like Guardian's aren't in the equation and Prot War is hands down the best loses all credibility with me.

    Again, it will shine on a fight with constant raid wide damage and be borderline irrelevant elsewhere but that's all you can really expect out of tank utility these days is to have a place on a certain fight.
    Guardian has absolutely nothing that compares with spending 30-45 Rage for a 2,800% of AP baseline absorb shield, the value of which can be multiplied several times by various talents and weapon abilities. Stampeding Roar is also mandatory raid utility but unlike Inspiring Presence, any Druid can bring it. Getting Inspiring Presence REQUIRES you to use a Warrior tank in one of your two tank slots.

  8. #28
    So... could we go back discussing about monk BM here? We are getting a bit off track =B
    Last edited by gregstafelam; 2016-07-21 at 01:13 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by gregstafelam View Post
    So... we could go back discussing about monk BM here? We are getting a bit off track =B
    The way it stands now, just spam Ironskin Brew with the 4-set and class trinket. There are too many Ox orbs and too much brew availability to get any sort of take-away knowledge of what things are like in Legion. We're veritably invincible at the moment with a little bit of healing.

    Single target damage is pretty low without the artifact traits, while AOE is fine.

  10. #30
    A short PSA, currently Special Delivery doesn't seem to be affected by your crit rating and has a crit chance of ~3%.

    It's now a straight dps loss over RJW if you can spare the gcd.

  11. #31
    does special delivery work for you guys at target dummies (on beta)? wanted to test how it works out dps wise but it just never proccs for me

  12. #32
    nvm this

    10 chars

  13. #33
    Field Marshal Golfik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    EU (Burning Legion)
    Posts
    86
    cross post from another thread but this is how i feel about my tank:

    my main was Monk tank in WoD, 5/13 Mythic and when i logged in yesterday i was like ... really ??

    I have 3 DPS skills on my bar (Expel Harm I am not counting it as its even more defensive skill now). Tiger Palm, Keg Smash and Blackout Strike !!! It felt so bad. For AoE i had to spec into RJW so I had 4 skills to use. To have our Ox statue as a talent and then not to be able to have AoE stun was disappointing. This to me is a very bad choice. I would rather have to choose between heal (Chi Wave) and Stun or Chi Wave and Statue but not being able to have both statue and stun is disappointing. With no Chi explosion and only RJW (talented) and Keg Smash it feel like I am lacking so much in AoE department.

    I decided to switch to Boomkin long before yesterday, but for once I will not be sorry about my choice. Playing my monk tank yesterday just felt so so boring .. maybe if I had to use defensive cool-downs more it could be more fun but still - to say I am not impressed is understatement.
    Apparently I am so old that I helped build Noah's Ark
    Also some pug called me "Worst Tank in EU"

    My Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/golfik_
    My Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/maciopoka

  14. #34
    you know the fire breath thingy still exists right ?

  15. #35
    Field Marshal Golfik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    EU (Burning Legion)
    Posts
    86
    true that - have not used it in ages ... could be why it felt so boring
    Apparently I am so old that I helped build Noah's Ark
    Also some pug called me "Worst Tank in EU"

    My Twitch channel - https://www.twitch.tv/golfik_
    My Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/maciopoka

  16. #36
    To be fair the ammount of frequently used abilities went from 6 (Guard, PB, KS, TP, Jab, BoK) to 7 (ISB, PB, KS, TP, BoF, BoK, RJW). If you chose ChiEx in WoD you might have had even less rotational abilities. I would not say that the ammount of abilities went down, it just went from "Spam TP 40% of the time" to "weave abilities smart to not get a free GCD" (which comes mainly down to keeping BoK on CD).

    For me it felt strange in beta too in the beginning but after leveling all the way to 110 i like that more than the old playstyle (after all TP was spammed but had no real defensive use). Keep in Mind that BoK and BoF Get a defensive use from the artefact later on or if you pick Blackout Combo.

    Having to decide between Dave and AoE Stun does really suck thou. But we will get over it by coordinating with anyone else who has AoE CC.

  17. #37
    Your haste will have an effect on your rotation as well as your talent choices. Chi Wave/Chi Burst and Rushing Jade Wind are great ways to fill extra GCDs. The spec has swapped from always having something to press (Tiger Palm) to now having multiple small cooldowns to watch with the option to swap in a few extra buttons.
    Every time you say "Brewmasters need to stay at 40-60% to be optimal" your favorite deity kills 10 kittens. Here is how it actually works from the Sparkle Dragon's mouth
    Play Monster Hunter? Here's my FC: 1779-0791-2717

    Thanks Shyama for the awesome Signature

  18. #38
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Just Awesome
    Posts
    6
    I just want to confirm wether im doing it right ... or not (Blackout Combo selected)
    Since putting this in words is too complicated i try to describe it with a timeline.
    I need someone smarter than me to help me figure this out xD (simcraft guys im talking to you ^^)
    We have no procs for free spells or extra energy -> our dps rotation is pretty much set in stone ? (one can choose between tp/bof/rjw every second blackoutkick)
    Basics for this calculation are KS CD = 8s / 1.xx Haste ; Energy Regen = 10/s * 1.xx Haste (correct me if im wrong please) -> 15Energy per gcd
    =>> KS CD = 5,33 * gcd ( this is shit imho ^^) [ only true if gcd is => 1s / haste is lower than 50%]

    1. 0% haste - i see two ways of playing this
    a) Blackoutkick on cooldown -> empowering as much as possible
    [Blackoutkick > Keg Smash > Blackout kick > Tiger palm/RJW/BOF > Blackout Kick > Tiger palm/RJW/BOF ]>[ Blackoutkick > Keg smash ...
    [ 0.0s > 1,5s > 3s > 4,5s > 6s > 7,5s ]>[ 9s > 10,5s....
    Results: Keg smash is delayed by 1 sec - meh. Up to 90 Energy used. Energy regenerated per cycle = 90 ->so we waste energy if we weave in sth else than TP
    b) Kegsmash on cooldown
    [Blackoutkick > Keg Smash > Blackout kick > Tiger palm/RJW/BOF > Blackout Kick > Tiger palm/RJW/BOF ]>[ Keg smash > Blackoutkick ...
    [ 0.0s > 1,5s > 3s > 4,5s > 6s > 7,5s ]>[ 9.5s > 11s ...
    Results: I wait 0,5s for keg smash to come of cooldown and use it. My keg smashes wont be empowered anymore. Up to 90 energy used with 80 regenerated per cycle-> weaving in other spells than tiger palm makes me cap energy anyways :/

    2. 0< x%< 50% Haste
    a) Delaying blackoutkicks and playing gcd capped
    [BOK > Keg Smash > Filler > BOK > Filler > filler ]>[ BOK > KS...
    [ 0 > 1gcd > 2gcd > 3gcd >4gcd >5gcd] >[ 6gcd> 7gcd....
    Results: Keg smash is delayed by 0,66 to 1 s (6gcd apart). Energy used up to 40+3*25= 115. Energy regenerated in 6gcd = 90 -> one TP can be switched for sth else without wasting energy.
    b) Blackout kick on cooldown
    its the same as 1a) but even more energy is wasted :/ , but everything is empowered
    c) KS (nearly) on CD and delaying Blackoutkicks (my favourite)
    BOK > KS > Filler > Bok > Filler > Bok > KS
    0 > 1gcd > 2gcd > 3gcd> 4gcd > 3gcd +3s > KS
    Results: with about 20% haste 3*gcd+3s ~ 5,33 *gcd ~ 6,8cd KS. Energy used up to 90. Energy regenerated about 70to90. Energy waste incoming ... ;/


    if Expel harm is not used ( is it on the gcd?) than energy will be wasted as far as i can see ?
    or am i just placing too much importance on Blackoutkick, although it will be even better with the trait " dark side of the moon "
    Last edited by dileria; 2016-07-21 at 02:32 PM.

  19. #39
    I didn't play BM on beta or anything, just played a few mythic dungeons before raid.

    Heres our Mythic Arch kill (pre-nerfs), I was dipping a little bit, but I think thats since our healers arent used to having to heal tanks.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mDphzNBHcgKadAy6

    we also did mannoroth and zakuun which you can find on our public logs, but live logging was breaking a lot.

  20. #40
    @dileria Monk has (like all other energy based melees afaik) a GCD of 1 second baseline. So in a perfekt world BoK will be every 3rd GCD.

    This said you should try to aim for a little bit of haste and try to use every second BoK Combo Proc for KS and you can try to use every other second BoK Proc for damage (TP) or even more defenses (ISB). If you use it for ISB you will have 3 seconds in which stagger will continue to build up but not damage you, resulting in a stronger purify when used at the end of the 3 seconds.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •