[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[arcuro]

we dont need to be healed any different than other tanks
but we have 2 mechanics which makes us completly different than other tanks

with stagger, ISB and PB we got the smoothest damage intake of all tank and by far of all tanks. no spikes witch gave Healers instant heart attacks
with celestial fortune any HOT is significant stronger (given your BrM has some Crit gear, some BrM play with more Haste and Versa, so it depends)
our Mastery is some depending and with good raid gear we avoid every 2-3 auto attack wich is huge

we dont need snap healing and be instant topping back to 100% because the next hit could kill tank BUT we need constant healing and there comes Celestial Fortune into game. With Hots and Crit we can most of the time negate the ticking stagger damage

it is, in my opinion, the closest to a perfect Healer-Tank-Relationship. Give us passive healing from healers and nothing will ever kill us without straining the healers sanity. But you have to play with your healer and with your Brew-Charges. And you have to know how much damage you can take and also when you have to PB so that your healer dont panic heal you back to 100% because you suddenly drop to 50% which isnt a dangerous heal-level for us at all.

[redfella]

Lets agree to disagree, paladins are much spikier and their active mitigation isn't 100%, paladins are definently not stronger from a defensive stand point, but hey they can solo violent winds twice because paladins.

Sure they can solo winds twice, but every tank can soak it solo once, so it's not really a big deal.

[Deleted]

That's the thing, someone was seeing that and dug into logs and surmised that the other tank had perma 20% reduction and the other got nothing.

Struggling to decipher it myself
Best case example appears to be our last heroic Ursoc kill
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=222209

The only one on there is my DK co-tank, and this is the uptime of Darkening Soul cast by his trinket. We noted that the stacks refreshed and you can see it basically never dropped off.
In Dragons of Nightmare, I refreshed stacks, but his seemed to drop off in the second half
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=222209

In the Cenarius kill, he appears to refresh, but take all the casts of Darkening Soul until halfway through:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...209&target=134
I don't think this was Phase 2?

This is probably because the boss won't have two counts of "Darkening Soul" on them, due to the unique name, so Dragons overlaps due to 2 bosses but a single boss can only have one Darkening Soul debuff outputting to warcraftlogs. I feel as though the switch on cenarius was due to Intercorpse's stacks dropping entirely and one of my stacks applying.
Unsure how to parse the data to see if we both get a DR effect though.

[Marrilaife]

Not being able to use your primary active mitigation unless you're in melee range of something to hit is a big one.

Yeah, only paladins and dks have this issue.

[Nanista]

I got the warforged neck Choker of Barbed Reins from Attumen (item=142174/choker-of-barbed-reins - sorry cant put link)

+1,147 Stamina
+1,123 Critical Strike
+748 Mastery
Equip: Taking damage has a chance to instantly deal 14250 to 15750 Physical damage to nearby enemies.


And oh boy the damages ! On Elerethe and Ursoc Mythic it did 6% of my DPS. On a triple pack in Karazhan it did 24% of my damages ! (2nd source, just behind Keg smash).

After some quick testing it seems to have a chance to proc on the initial hit (as intended) but also on every stagger tick, so BRM have way more proc with this neck than everyone else.

[Idontknowjack]

Let's enjoy it while it last (which as someone already pointed out, in equivalence to the statuette, might be a long time as noone actually plays BrM)

[Densalo]

Quick question for the BrM community. BrM is my offspec at the moment and im running in to a gearing dilemma.
It's basically a debate between the following:
Katsuo's Eclipse (WW Leg boots)
1479 agi
2219 stam
662 haste
496 mastery

and...

Dreamsculptor's Gloves (875)
1228 agi
1842 stam
399 crit
675 haste

or drop them and use the following for the 2 set bonus:

Guileful Intruder Handguards (870 + socket)
1172 agi
1758 stam
731 crit
324 haste
+socket

Tunnel Trudger Footguards
1068 agi
1601 stam
726 crit
290 haste

Set (2/2): chance to increase mastery by 3,000 for 15 seconds (seems to be roughly 10% uptime)


Switching to the 2 set piece gives the following:

agi -467
sta -1329
crit +3%
haste -3%
mastery -1%
vers (even)


It seems like it's probably not worth it even for the 3,000 mastery proc.
I just wanted to run it by you guys in case the answer is obvious, before I waste a lot of time trying to sim etc.

[DisposableHero]

Eh, I read on a thread here that BrM should be healed in a different manner because of their kit or something.

What does that mean ? I don't play BrM (i'm levelling a MW) but it kinda intrigued me.

What is so different that makes healing a BrM different than healing another tank ?

Healing a Brewmaster above 50% hp is largely a waste of mana. Celestial Fortune is largely wasted if there isn't a significant amount of unhealed HP that proc'd heals can work on. Obstinate Determination rewards the Brewmaster with additional self healing for remaining at semi dangerous health totals. Very high stagger percentages with ISB active dramatically reduce the actual level of danger a Brewmaster is in while not topped off. Consequently in harder content where this behavior becomes inherently riskier, Brewmaster mitigation becomes increasing less efficient. Healers who try to constantly top off the Brewmaster will find them constantly in need of some healing, which will make them seem fragile.

[Dakiri]

Quick question for the BrM community. BrM is my offspec at the moment and im running in to a gearing dilemma.

Seems unlikely that the set would be better than the higher item level pieces. 3k mastery is like 8.5%, I think. So if uptime is 10%, you can break that down to an average of .85%. Basically, you'd be trading 3% haste for 3% crit (most people see haste as more valuable than crit, although there are also some who swear by crit heavy builds), which varies from a win to a loss depending on your viewpoint, while losing 467 agility and 1329 stam.

On top of that, while a 3k mastery proc is great for dps, I don't think it has a ton of value for BrM. It could potentially be great if it pushes you over a breakpoint, but I don't think a gearing strat that makes you tankier a random 10% of the time but leaves you weaker the other 90% of the time is a great idea in general for tanking. Combined with the loss of primary stats, I think you're going to be better off with the first option.

[Idontknowjack]

The set bonus, Jacin's ruce, has a fairly high uptime (around 30% I believe). Spell ID 1296 for the WA's. I don't mind the proc based concept tbh, at least not in dungeons. It's tricky to say what's best here though, but for a big trash pulls 8.5% extra avoidance is reliable damage reduction (and great for keeping necrotic stacks low(er)).

[Bearygood]

So what are some good trinkets I can get?

[Deleted]

So what are some good trinkets I can get?

Pre-raid trinkets :

The "Darkmoon Deck: Immortality"(Inscription craft) is usually quite cheap and good on BrM due to our low armor (can be upgraded to 855).
I suppose "Impenetrable Nerubian Husk"(Violet Hold) can be a good alternative if you manage to roll a good one.

As a second trinket I really love "Coagulated Nightwell Residue"(Arcway), It gives me a 1.2M shield at 10 stack, I can charge it up on easy packs and use it when I pull big ones or for certain mechanics in raid (When I have to drop the rot from nythendra, etc ...)

[AetherMcLoud]

Healing a Brewmaster above 50% hp is largely a waste of mana. Celestial Fortune is largely wasted if there isn't a significant amount of unhealed HP that proc'd heals can work on. Obstinate Determination rewards the Brewmaster with additional self healing for remaining at semi dangerous health totals. Very high stagger percentages with ISB active dramatically reduce the actual level of danger a Brewmaster is in while not topped off. Consequently in harder content where this behavior becomes inherently riskier, Brewmaster mitigation becomes increasing less efficient. Healers who try to constantly top off the Brewmaster will find them constantly in need of some healing, which will make them seem fragile.

Healers, please completely disregard this false advice.

Brewmasters are healed exactly like all other tanks. The only difference is that we have smoother damage intake for probably a bit more damage taken overall, but we make up for that in giving heals an additional chance to crit another time for a bit more healing.

In higher M+ "have the Brewmaster stay at 50% health" is deadly.

The advice that Brewmasters are better at lower health simply needs to go away. It's an old adage from beta when Orbs where tied to health level and RNG, which they aren't anymore (unless you take Gift of the Ox which you never should).

But since our damage intake is smoother, hots work better for us than other tanks.

[redfella]

Healers, please completely disregard this false advice.

Brewmasters are healed exactly like all other tanks. The only difference is that we have smoother damage intake for probably a bit more damage taken overall, but we make up for that in giving heals an additional chance to crit another time for a bit more healing.

In higher M+ "have the Brewmaster stay at 50% health" is deadly.

The advice that Brewmasters are better at lower health simply needs to go away. It's an old adage from beta when Orbs where tied to health level and RNG, which they aren't anymore (unless you take Gift of the Ox which you never should).

But since our damage intake is smoother, hots work better for us than other tanks.

Ahem, ever heard of Obstinate Determination? GotO is definately tied to health and it's one reason for that lowhp play.

Also, that talent just reduces the 100% hp loss per orb to 60% (you shouldn't take it anyway, still, but your info is wrong).

[AetherMcLoud]

Ahem, ever heard of Obstinate Determination? GotO is definately tied to health and it's one reason for that lowhp play.

Also, that talent just reduces the 100% hp loss per orb to 60% (you shouldn't take it anyway, still, but your info is wrong).

Gift of the Ox is NOT TIED TO HEALTH LEVEL! There is no reason for low health play. At all.

You simply get an orb every time you get 100% of your health in damage (before stagger). No RNG, no health level crap.

Gift of the Mists talent introduces some RNG and actual benefits at low health but no one takes it since it's a bad talent so that's a moot point anyway.

OD Artifact trait is a fallback and basically a cooldown when low on health. And exploitable for soloing hard stuff. But it's not something you try to actively trigger...

[Xiaojin]

I agree with AetherMcLoud here: Gaming OD is a bad idea. It only really works in content that is non-threatening to you anyway. It's purpose is to buy a little more time when shit hits the fan.

Gift of the Mists has nothing to do with RNG btw. Whenever you gain progress towards your next GotO orb spawn, that progress is increased by x%. x = 0 if you are at full health and it increases linearly to x = 60 when you're dead (so you'll effectively never get the full 60% gain). Suppose you take damage equal to 10% of your maximum HP (before Stagger) and that hit drops you to 50% of your health. Without GotM, you'll gain those 10% as progress toward your next GotO orb. With GotM, you'll gain 13% orb progress instead. Since you dropped to 50% (I think GotM uses your health level AFTER the damage has been subtracted), you gain 30% additional progress due to GotM since you're half way to being dead and getting the full 60%. 30% of those 10% of your max. health is another 3% of your max. health, so you gain orb progress equal to 13% of your max. health instead of just 10%.

TL;DR: Gift of the Mists is not random, it provides a deterministic increase in orb spawns based on how low your health level is on average. You get up to 60% more orbs over the duration of a fight depending how close to death you are on average.

[redfella]

Gift of the Ox is NOT TIED TO HEALTH LEVEL! There is no reason for low health play. At all.

OD Artifact trait is a fallback and basically a cooldown when low on health. And exploitable for soloing hard stuff. But it's not something you try to actively trigger...

Shitty advice, imho.

TL;DR; I stress that you need to know what you are doing, plan ahead and the healer must be aware of what you are doing as well. Abusing OD is best left to be used with a group of friends. You don't game OD just for the sake of it, you do it to enable things like larger pulls or more dps on a pack due not needing to kite as much -- these things enable you to beat the harder timers and grab more loot chests while at it.

Long version: Gaming OD is perfectly valid, reasonable and even desirable in higher level M+, where the larger pulls really hurt the group as well as the tank. Know which packs have no single hits/nukes that can oneshot you and park the pull in a corner and let OD and GotO orbs take the pressure off the healer who may have a hard time keeping everyone topped since not all the damage is directed to the tank.

In case someone still isn't aware: In a corner, GotO orbs spawn on top of you and are instantly consumed without having to move or Expel Harm. They easily attribute to more than 200k+ HPS, when you bounce below and back above 35% constantly. If you are taking a lot more damage than what that 200k HPS and the healer attention puts out, chances are the GotO orb won't push you back above 35% and you'll go splat. Experience is key, just find out where you can abuse OD and where you can't -- you'll have an easier time and clear faster on the following dungeon runs, when you've spent some time finding the sweetspots for your gear and mob types.

Utilizing OD takes a lot of pressure off from your healer, so he can keep the DPS up from the AoE damage a lot of the packs have and lets him contribute to DPS as well. You can't just stunlock a pack indefinately due DR and kiting isn't feasible against all types of mobs, higher level M+ packs just won't die inside a few AoE stuns and you either kite, ride cooldowns or game OD as a Brewmaster.

[Tokero]

I'm with Mcloud here too. In my experience OD isn't something you can base your game on at least in difficult content and exploiting it should be limited to emergency situations (healer dead etc.). Unless you do the corner shenanigans, there is a real risk that your orb not getting you above %35 because it costs a GCD and things hit like a truck in harder content (like General Xacal who melees you 2-3M unmitigated with Tyrannical). Corner tactic works way better but first it feels cheesy as hell and second it messes up movement and positioning for everyone else. Also it's not %100 reliable because I remember getting bursted down couple of times in corner when I tried it when my healers were dead.

[Ahsakura]

How is everyone speccing for Mythic+ right now? I recently decided to switch back to my BrM instead of my Druid because I find it more fun. I started pugging some mythics to gear up (842 currently) and feel like I'm having a more difficult time than I expected with ISB uptime. I'm running Chi Burst, BoB, Leg Sweep, Elixer, RJW, and BoC. I know my stats are all over the place because of my low ilvl but working on building up my haste and mastery.

I feel like my ISB is falling off even using BoB on CD and only Purifying above 60%. I'm using BoC almost elusively on Keg Smash.

Any general tips are more than welcome, I know its hard to give much more than that without seeing logs or anything. Thanks in advance!

[Deleted]

How is everyone speccing for Mythic+ right now? I recently decided to switch back to my BrM instead of my Druid because I find it more fun. I started pugging some mythics to gear up (842 currently) and feel like I'm having a more difficult time than I expected with ISB uptime. I'm running Chi Burst, BoB, Leg Sweep, Elixer, RJW, and BoC. I know my stats are all over the place because of my low ilvl but working on building up my haste and mastery.

I feel like my ISB is falling off even using BoB on CD and only Purifying above 60%. I'm using BoC almost elusively on Keg Smash.

Any general tips are more than welcome, I know its hard to give much more than that without seeing logs or anything. Thanks in advance!

If you're struggling to keep ISB up with BoB & good use of BoC then I'd assume you have quite low haste? If so it might be worth testing out HT instead until you can get to a more comfortable level of haste. The alternative could be that your not TPing enough and being energy capped since you're running CB & RJW which are both using up GCDs.

At the moment I'm doing M10+'s with EotT, BoB, LS, HE, SD & HT. I only run with 19% haste atm (wasn't getting haste drops so pushed for the 3hit mastery breakpoint) and I'm still often using ISB purely to try and trigger to SD. Assuming I can finally get some haste gear I want to try go back to testing BoC again for the DPS. For where I'm at now though (and given I don't have time atm for Mythic raiding + I have the legendary chest) the HT & high mastery builds work really well in M+. I just don't have an equally geared haste build yet to test & compare HT with BoC.