Anduin - Son of the Wolf

[KrazyK923]

If anybody is to blame, its us for freeing Gul'dan rather than killing him at the beginning of WoD.

Even people I know who didn't know much about the lore were all, "Uhhh why would we free him instead of killing him?"

Or Khadgar for telling us to.

[Raetary]

What is this anduin son of arthas menethil meme ??

littlejin just trolling again.

[Disreali]

If anybody is to blame, its us for freeing Gul'dan rather than killing him at the beginning of WoD.

Even people I know who didn't know much about the lore were all, "Uhhh why would we free him instead of killing him?"

Or Khadgar for telling us to.

Khadgar is just a wealth of bad decisions.

[Zulkhan]

If anybody is to blame, its us for freeing Gul'dan rather than killing him at the beginning of WoD.

Not sure about that. Freeing Gul'dan was actually necessary and I don't think it was possible for the player to single-handely kill him, seeing how we failed to do that later on as well. On the other hand, the little show in Pandaria was absolutely avoidable and there was no logical reason to keep Garrosh alive after SoO besides "we have to decide a just punishment to make everyone happy".

[Disreali]

I mean neither Thrall or Varian wanted the other to kill him. Maybe just smash him both at the same time until he's dead? Beats sending him to stand trial at a court with a 0% conviction rate.

[KrazyK923]

Alright sure, its varian's fault.

its always the alliance's fault somehow.

[Graden]

Not sure about that. Freeing Gul'dan was actually necessary and I don't think it was possible for the player to single-handely kill him, seeing how we failed to do that later on as well. On the other hand, the little show in Pandaria was absolutely avoidable and there was no logical reason to keep Garrosh alive after SoO besides "we have to decide a just punishment to make everyone happy".

Varian should have let Thrall to finish the job...''his punishment is not for you alone to decide''. What better punishment of ending the life of a tyrant after all the crimes he commited. Thousands of deaths could have been avoided, if only they knew...

[Disreali]

Varian should have let Thrall to finish the job...''his punishment is not for you alone to decide''. What better punishment of ending the life of a tyrant after all the crimes he commited. Thousands of deaths could have been avoided, if only they knew...

Nah, Thrall killing Garrosh would have pissed me off. It absolves him of all responsibility in appointing the jackhole in the first place. And low and behold that's what happened in WoD.
Varian was High King of the Alliance. The Alliance was the group on the receiving end of most of Garrosh's crimes. Garrosh threatened Varian's son more than once and nearly killed him. Varian should have been the one to kill him.

Vol'jin could piss on the body afterwards if he wanted to.

[Graden]

Nah, Thrall killing Garrosh would have pissed me off. It absolves him of all responsibility in appointing the jackhole in the first place. And low and behold that's what happened in WoD.
Varian was High King of the Alliance. The Alliance was the group on the receiving end of most of Garrosh's crimes. Garrosh threatened Varian's son more than once and nearly killed him. Varian should have been the one to kill him.

Vol'jin could piss on the body afterwards if he wanted to.

As long as it would get the job done I don't really care who was going to get the 'honor' of killing Garrosh.
But Thrall had every reason if not even more than Varian to kill Garrosh as well. Garrosh was more of a Horde matter, at least at first, for obvious reasons. And let's not forget that he commited huge crimes against the Horde too. Thrall was the one who apointed Garrosh as the Warchief of the Horde, it was his own personal mistake. A mistake that cost him dearly and filled him with huge regrets that he is going to carry for the rest of his life. He felt that he started all this and that's why he wanted to be the one to finish it - and he did, in Draenor.

[Disreali]

As long as it would get the job done I don't really care who was going to get the 'honor' of killing Garrosh.
But Thrall had every reason if not even more than Varian to kill Garrosh as well. Garrosh was more of a Horde matter, at least at first, for obvious reasons. And let's not forget that he commited huge crimes against the Horde too. Thrall was the one who apointed Garrosh as the Warchief of the Horde, it was his own personal mistake. A mistake that cost him dearly and filled him with huge regrets that he is going to carry for the rest of his life. He felt that he started all this and that's why he wanted to be the one to finish it - and he did, in Draenor.

Except Thrall never showed any regret. His "you chose your own path" line of his is him absolving himself of all responsibility. Even though he's the one who filled Garrosh's head with nonsense about his father and the "glories" of the old Horde.

Thrall made the mistake, yes, but it should have been the people who Garrosh committed war crimes against who finished him. And no, pissing off Vol'jin doesn't count.
Just take a look at what the Theramore refugees were put through in Orgrimmar. Or what he planned on doing to Stormwind and Ashenvale.
The Alliance should have ended him, while Thrall lived with regret until the end of his life.

[Highwhale]

He felt that he started all this and that's why he wanted to be the one to finish it - and he did, in Draenor.

For what was punished by Elements in Legion. Varian was should killed Garrosh but Thrall can't allow human to kill orc in orc city. Thrall is stubborn idiot who pursued in WoD revenge not justice/try to redeem his mistakes.

[Traveler Voltin]

Thrall's mistake.
So thrall had every right to fix it

[Disreali]

Thrall's mistake.
So thrall had every right to fix it

Nah. Thrall's mistake caused the Alliance so much unnessecary pain. They should have ended Garry. Thrall should have been shamed for his shitty decision.

[Graden]

For what was punished by Elements in Legion. Varian was should killed Garrosh but Thrall can't allow human to kill orc in orc city. Thrall is stubborn idiot who pursued in WoD revenge not justice/try to redeem his mistakes.

As I said I really couldn't care less if Garrosh was slain by Varian's or Thrall's hands. I'm just pointing out that like Varian, Thrall had his own reasons to kill him.
And Thrall raised his hammer first, Varian was the one who didn't let Thrall to end Garrosh.

[Traveler Voltin]

Nah. Thrall's mistake caused the Alliance so much unnessecary pain. They should have ended Garry. Thrall should have been shamed for his shitty decision.

It wasnt just the alliance that suffered.
Bias fool

[Highwhale]

And Thrall raised his hammer first, Varian was the one who didn't let Thrall to end Garrosh.

Now blame Anduin for poison food thing in War Crimes.

It wasnt just the alliance that suffered.
Bias fool

Yea but Alliance was the most damaged by Garrosh's actions.

[Traveler Voltin]

Now blame Anduin for poison food thing in War Crimes.



Yea but Alliance was the most damaged by Garrosh's actions.

Nope. Keep telling yourself that.

[Graden]

Now blame Anduin for poison food thing in War Crimes.

Who said I'm blaming anyone? You said that Thrall didn't allow Varian to kill Garrosh because he was a human in an Orc city. Which I don't doubt it could happen, but that's not what we saw. What we saw was the complete opposite, Varian interrupted Thrall.

- - - Updated - - -

And after that Thrall obviously didn't want Varian to take Garrosh. Why someone would ask. Maybe because even after all Garrosh had done, his crimes against the world, he still was an Orc and Orcs rather die than surrender and get captured. So I guess Thrall wanted to do this one good deed for Garrosh.
Another reason would be pride. He didn't want to hand over the Warchief of the Horde to the Alliance, thus making the Horde look weak and defeated (though I doubt that is the case, the Horde was already very damaged at this point).

[Zulkhan]

Alright sure, its varian's fault.

Compared to Khadgar or the player? Yeah.

Varian was should killed Garrosh but Thrall can't allow human to kill orc in orc city.

Varian never shown the intention to kill Garrosh himself. He stopped Thrall and told "his punishment is not for you alone to decide" which was pretty much an invitation for Taran Zhu to do what he did later. Varian even nods when Taran finishes his speech.

I'm not saying Thrall had a right on the kill but it's undeniable that let him accomplish that kill would have spared Azeroth from a lot of problems. This, of course, if we truly want to play the dumb game of who's at fault of what, which is silly anyway because people back in SoO couldn't barely predict the events of WoD and Khadgar had literally no choice but to act as he did.

[Disreali]

And after that Thrall obviously didn't want Varian to take Garrosh. Why someone would ask. Maybe because even after all Garrosh had done, his crimes against the world, he still was an Orc and Orcs rather die than surrender and get captured. So I guess Thrall wanted to do this one good deed for Garrosh.
Another reason would be pride. He didn't want to hand over the Warchief of the Horde to the Alliance, thus making the Horde look weak and defeated (though I doubt that is the case, the Horde was already very damaged at this point).

So Thrall is a stubborn fool too in love with a romantic ideal of his people to actually let a war criminal be taken by the people who be victimized.
Yeah, that squares with Thrall's character. Seriously, screw him.

Compared to Khadgar or the player? Yeah.



Varian never shown the intention to kill Garrosh himself. He stopped Thrall and told "his punishment is not for you alone to decide" which was pretty much an invitation for Taran Zhu to do what he did later. Varian even nods when Taran finishes his speech.

I'm not saying Thrall had a right on the kill but it's undeniable that let him accomplish that kill would have spared Azeroth from a lot of problems. This, of course, if we truly want to play the dumb game of who's at fault of what, which is silly anyway because people back in SoO couldn't barely predict the events of WoD and Khadgar had literally no choice but to act as he did.

Well if you want to play that game then Thrall's still to blame for...
filling Garrosh's head with nonsense about his father and the old Horde.
for appointing Garrosh Warchief when every one of his friends and advisors told him it was a mistake.

Now that would be fine narratively if Thrall was ever taken to task for his mistakes and misconceptions concerning his father and Grom. Or his appointment of Garrosh. Instead his "you chose your own path" line absolves himself of all responsibility.

It wasnt just the alliance that suffered.
Bias fool

Garrosh bombed Theramore. He then took its civilian refugees hostage and made parents watch as he made their children fight for the amusement of orcs. All of that can be seen in SoO.
Garrosh ordered Sylvy to invade Gilneas, which rendered the kingdom and land ruined.
Garrosh made it clear his plan in Ashenvale was to slaughter as many Night Elves as he could, and force their broken and mostly ethnically cleansed population to the Eastern Kingdoms as he tore down their sacred homeland and built a giant city ontop of it "for the glory of the Horde."
He nearly killed the Crown Prince of Stormwind, who was trying to end the war peacefully.
He made it clear to Varian he intended to level Stormwind and parade Anduin around Orgrimmar in chains.

Of course other factions and races suffered as a result of Garrosh's warmongering, but the Alliance nations took the brunt of it.