[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[killwithpwr]

When a Blizzard employee states such idiotic statements such as "Ret is no where near the buttom" and "I have had Blessing of Freedom save many players in Mistress fights" and "Everytime there are two or more enemies, you just use Divine Storm to get your Damage up" you gotta question the validity of that employee.

He doesn't strike me as someone who has stepped foot in Mythic and i assume PvP (i don't pvp either, but i never comment on such things).

It is a fact that Ret is a low viability spec in higher content, it may not be to bad in Heroic and Normal raiding, but it is deffinitly behind most other specs.

Our defensives are subpar, our damage (ST and AoE)is subpar and our movement is near the buttom.

The spec is designed as a Burst spec, but many other specs have surpassed our burst with their sustained.

The Spec used to have great AoE, but that too is subpar now.

Only reasons i personaly keep my Paladin in Mythic is i dont have the time for alts and my Guild has attendance issues...

[Taeldorian]

So what? Oh wow, a CM is talking about playing ret! Too bad the guy's clueless, as a Blizzard employee he should know better. Even after constructive criticism and suggestions, which there were plenty of, he just words the same thing differently. Is this the sort of feedback he gives higher up the chain? No wonder ret is a wet noodle.

People are sick and tired of being dragged around as some sort of in-house joke. It's been going on for years. Hopefully more people quit, and enough of them, so they actually address this shit properly by getting more competent devs and CMs. I remember the last CM supposedly representing ret, yeah, what a success that was.

To be honest you actually brought up something I was thinking about after reading the post.

How much of an effect do you think personal opinion/bias effects what goes to the developers? For example, if Ysithens (the cm) says our mobility is fine, does that mean he gives that feedback to the Devs or does he give our feedback to the Devs despite his own personal opinion.

If personal opinion/bias effects CMs and even Devs that explains a lot of things. Obviously every single person has some sort of opinion/bias but I wonder how much it affects the feedback chain.

As for everything else, rather than blaming past mistakes on a completely new CM and venting all of your frustration to a new CM I think conversation is the better option. You can do what you want but if the cm stops communicating to the ret community I won’t be surprised. Nobody wants to deal with toxic internet fucks if they don’t have to.

Kalgan was a garbage developer especially for our class since he clearly had a different viewpoint than we did in terms of fantasy and core abilities like seals, HoW, etc. He rarely ever communicated and when he did it was to say how he’s right no matter what data we provide. However blaming his failures on a new CM whose trying to talk to the community is a terrible move. This is another interesting thing, since Kalgan has been the Paladin dev for a while and he just moved to another project I wonder if anything will change with the next dev. We all know where Kalgan stood on Paladin fantasy (slow moving juggernaught, stand in fire to do more damage, etc) so I wonder where the new dev stands.

Yes, the CM made some pretty bad points especially about mobility and divine storm. Everyone can AoE and we aren’t the best. We’re also the slowest moving spec in the game I believe and our dps is middle of the pack even though our fantasy was “slow moving juggernaut”. I’ve been here forever man I get the frustration, I’m frustrated too but shitting on someone for posting an opinion/viewpoint is in my opinion a bad way to go with this.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Don't know how you guys persist with this class, but I'm happy to have quit the game. Too much of a grindfest. I would have used an alt, but that's months of hoping for the right legendaries at the right time. This game took a nosedive ever since they imported D3 devs.

I rolled Arms. Doing great.

Then I rolled a DH and finally levelled a DK.
Because why the feth not.

I think Retribution is fine.
I just don't play it.
I have better things to do.

- - - Updated - - -

I love how a CM openly communicates about playing ret and is willing to have a conversation about the spec and the same 2 people in here are circlejerking and shitting all over him.

You guys want things to change for the class, you want Devs to hear your thoughts and feedback but the first time ret has ever had a CM (or even dev) talk about the class you guys decide to shit on him for stating what he thinks.

He’s clearly willing to have a conversation about the class. I have no idea why you people insist on being the problem instead of addressing it.

Not only that but this is the first time I’ve ever seen a CM openly communicate about playing ret. Haven’t seen anyone do that and I started in late 08. You guys are gonna fuck that up real fast and then I bet the same guys who shit on this dude for trying to have a conversation are gonna be the ones that say “they never listen to us fuck these developers”.

He's clueless.
He was asked about PvP, yet answered about Dragonslaying BS.
Your point is moot.

[Jester Joe]

So what? Oh wow, a CM is talking about playing ret! Too bad the guy's clueless, as a Blizzard employee he should know better. Even after constructive criticism and suggestions, which there were plenty of, he just words the same thing differently. Is this the sort of feedback he gives higher up the chain? No wonder ret is a wet noodle.

People are sick and tired of being dragged around as some sort of in-house joke. It's been going on for years. Hopefully more people quit, and enough of them, so they actually address this shit properly by getting more competent devs and CMs. I remember the last CM supposedly representing ret, yeah, what a success that was.

I didn't really see anything constructive about that thread to be fair. The OP was just raging while bumping their own thread several times, and didn't even give anything besides "WHY IS RET BAD".

And still, just because the CM might not be some ret pro, doesn't mean they should be met with rage and hate. People wonder why there's so little communication now, it's because what sane CM is going to want to when reactions like this happen instead of actual discussion.

He's clueless.
He was asked about PvP, yet answered about Dragonslaying BS.
Your point is moot.

The OP screwed that one up in regards to that CM. Starts off talking about PvP, then suddenly, bUT THE LOGS!

It seemed like they didn't know whether to be mad about PvP or PvE.

[Lumineus]

#whynotboth

[Morally Grey Storm]

I didn't really see anything constructive about that thread to be fair. The OP was just raging while bumping their own thread several times, and didn't even give anything besides "WHY IS RET BAD".

And still, just because the CM might not be some ret pro, doesn't mean they should be met with rage and hate. People wonder why there's so little communication now, it's because what sane CM is going to want to when reactions like this happen instead of actual discussion.



The OP screwed that one up in regards to that CM. Starts off talking about PvP, then suddenly, bUT THE LOGS!

It seemed like they didn't know whether to be mad about PvP or PvE.

Orly?
Could you point me at a moment in time where we had a lot of conversations with blues regarding Ret?
Is there a possibility that our rage, hatred and ice cold contempt with disdain coating is brought forth because of lack of competent, responsive and actually fruitful communication and not the other way around?


No, op did not.
The cm proficiently avoided pvp questions altogether.
Because he was fething clueless.

[Deleted]

Divine steed is not that bad if u jump the last split second of the buff

lol

[Reith]

Divine steed is not that bad if u jump the last split second of the buff

lol

Even with that it's still fairly mediocre. I know because I do that already. Ret is OK, but there was so much more to it before Legion. Oh well.

[Ryuji]

WTB Long Arm of the Law coming back as well as Emancipate, among other things.

[Celebhil]

With how judgement works now (hopefully that changes/ greatly improved upon) why would long arm of the law be useful? it'd be a waste of the cd. I'd rather them actually give us a working "falling sword" spell.

[Demsi]

I just want charge tbh, i dont care about casters crying about melee's, i want to be viable in pvp for once.

[Kelemar]

I just want charge tbh, i dont care about casters crying about melee's, i want to be viable in pvp for once.

This. A charge/leap + removal of Judgment debuff mechanic, maybe with HotR and HoW returning and I'd be a happy little Paladin again.

[Deleted]

Hi guys, this might be abit unrelated to retribution. But I'm trying to find out my stat weights so I can put them into Pawn. The problem is that I'm getting different results from raidbots and from Simulationcraft. What would be most accurate? How do you rets find out your statweights?

[Redblade]

Hi guys, this might be abit unrelated to retribution. But I'm trying to find out my stat weights so I can put them into Pawn. The problem is that I'm getting different results from raidbots and from Simulationcraft. What would be most accurate? How do you rets find out your statweights?

[Deleted]

Yes. I did sim myself. Both via simulationcraft and raidbots. They gave me different result.
On a second note, how do I sim trinkets? Never understood.

[BobAwesome]

-gif-

Good job not even reading that dudes post

[Redblade]

Good job not even reading that dudes post

The question was...

How do you rets find out your statweights?

And the answer is through simulationcraft.

Yes. I did sim myself. Both via simulationcraft and raidbots. They gave me different result.
On a second note, how do I sim trinkets? Never understood.

If you're using nightly Simcraft that should be the most accurate, if you're using the last release version Raidbots is probably more accurate as I think it uses the nightly builds. Here is the link to the nightly builds.

In simcraft you add the following, with desired name and links to the trinkets you want, below your normal gear. You can make as many copies as you want and replace both trinkets as well. The copy will be the same gear as you had before the copy and only replace what ever you put in the copy. The more copies you make the longer the sim will take though so don't over do it.

copy="Cinders+Horn"
trinket1=,id=147009,bonus_id=3562/1497/3528
trinket2=,id=133642,gem_id=151580,bonus_id=3573/1808/1577/3337

[Jester Joe]

Orly?
Could you point me at a moment in time where we had a lot of conversations with blues regarding Ret?
Is there a possibility that our rage, hatred and ice cold contempt with disdain coating is brought forth because of lack of competent, responsive and actually fruitful communication and not the other way around?


No, op did not.
The cm proficiently avoided pvp questions altogether.
Because he was fething clueless.

You have a blue who just came in to discuss Ret, and instead of giving them a chance and trying to discuss why they think the blue is wrong, people are just screaming about how trash of a ret player they must be. Try to justify that as much as you want, but then when the Blue leaves again, and you're wondering why we have no Blues discussing Ret...well, I'll just hold my "I told you so" until then.

And the OP was confusing as hell, they wrote an opening post about PvP.
And then proceeded to bump their own thread several times about how PvE sucks.

The question was...

And the answer is through simulationcraft.

If you're using nightly Simcraft that should be the most accurate, if you're using the last release version Raidbots is probably more accurate as I think it uses the nightly builds. Here is the link to the nightly builds.

In simcraft you add the following, with desired name and links to the trinkets you want, below your normal gear. You can make as many copies as you want and replace both trinkets as well. The copy will be the same gear as you had before the copy and only replace what ever you put in the copy. The more copies you make the longer the sim will take though so don't over do it.

The issue was in the very post they already said they simmed themselves. So saying to "sim yourself" again is a bit...odd.

[Deleted]

You have a blue who just came in to discuss Ret, and instead of giving them a chance and trying to discuss why they think the blue is wrong, people are just screaming about how trash of a ret player they must be. Try to justify that as much as you want, but then when the Blue leaves again, and you're wondering why we have no Blues discussing Ret...well, I'll just hold my "I told you so" until then.

this blues intention was to derail with nonsense. it was one those not-so-subtle fuck-us froms the devs. cuz its completely irrational to claim BoK = Heroic Leap = Hook...
this statement was a provocation, with the implicit message of: hahahaha, take it or leave it, u fly when we want.
there is no constructive debate possible if a blue derails from the start, its not wanted at all (by the blue/devs sometimes). cuz all the arguments have flooded the forum for 1+ year now, esp. mobility. to what result? a nerf to Divine Intervention, cuz it felt "mandatory" after noone still didnt spec post-buff Cavalier (second Pony) iirc.
its not that the argument of a (supposedly) vocal minority is another derail (how can anybody know what the "Silent" majority thinks?)

[Jester Joe]

this blues intention was to derail with nonsense. it was one those not-so-subtle fuck-us froms the devs. cuz its completely irrational to claim BoK = Heroic Leap = Hook...
this statement was a provocation, with the implicit message of: hahahaha, take it or leave it, u fly when we want.
there is no constructive debate possible if a blue derails from the start, its not wanted at all (by the blue/devs sometimes). cuz all the arguments have flooded the forum for 1+ year now, esp. mobility. to what result? a nerf to Divine Intervention, cuz it felt "mandatory" after noone still didnt spec post-buff Cavalier (second Pony) iirc.
its not that the argument of a (supposedly) vocal minority is another derail (how can anybody know what the "Silent" majority thinks?)

It wasn't a provocation at all, nor was it derailing.

This reaction though is very much why blues end up posting less and less. Then people complain they're not getting attention. And then the new blues try to come in, and they get this kind of reaction.

You're taking it out on the wrong person completely. Especially in this case, that blue was just hired like what, a month or two ago? They even flat out agreed some changes would be nice (Divine Steed off the GCD is one I would love to see, strictly as a PvE'er, not dispellable and off the GCD I assume is what a PvP'er would prefer).

I mean, hell, I've seen people insulting the blue saying "they edited it to try to save face" basically, when they have a post specifically saying "I worded it wrong, sorry" and then fixed it so there wasn't more confusion.