[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[MarshallX]

I would think that heroic would also have more players that are serious about their class at the least, whereas normal might be weighed down by the ret being carried.

Either way, I'm not surprised to see middle of the pack to low as the range. I feel like its been like that pretty reliably since I started in Cata.

The tuning that takes place should put us on par with other specs that don't have other options - shadow priests and windwalker and to some extent boomkin/feral and blood/frost (good day: the higher of those, bad day: the lower)

I have no problems with pure dps classes being above us but there shouldn't be 2-3 specs from other classes parsing higher than us across the board and ESPECIALLY not bi-role classes having two dps specs above us.

Just my 2c and it's been said before.

[Vuagnon]

Why can't at least one dps spec from each class be represented in the top rankings? Why are we almost at the bottom?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why can't at least one dps spec from each class be represented in the top rankings? Why are we almost at the bottom?

do you not know being middle of the pack/lower is good as it means we're balanced and won't get nerfed?

[Floross]

If I'm stubborn and like to use DP for ST what would compliment it better : Zeal or Greater J ?

[Deleted]

Anyone got sims for the EN trinkets in comparison to mythic dungeons?

[Uurdz]

I would think that heroic would also have more players that are serious about their class at the least, whereas normal might be weighed down by the ret being carried.

Either way, I'm not surprised to see middle of the pack to low as the range. I feel like its been like that pretty reliably since I started in Cata.

This. 10 chr

[Snegovik]

At this point we should be going for depressing bud. The more we bitch and moan the faster it gets worked on. See: Warlocks

Don't forget, warlocks are one of the BLizzard's favorite children, while Rets are rather a "mistake" from drunken 1 night stand with some1 you never want to see again cuz of how ugly the person is.

[Donalld]

Question: should judgement be the first thing thrown up then build HoPower while target is affected by judgement or build up to 5 combo points then cast judgement and spenders ?

[Snegovik]

Question: should judgement be the first thing thrown up then build HoPower while target is affected by judgement or build up to 5 combo points then cast judgement and spenders ?

The former one, at least for now. If Blizzard will go forth and change crusader to improvement judgement, then when you will be popping wings, you can cast judgement 1st as you run towards the target.

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

The tuning that takes place should put us on par with other specs that don't have other options - shadow priests and windwalker and to some extent boomkin/feral and blood/frost (good day: the higher of those, bad day: the lower)

I have no problems with pure dps classes being above us but there shouldn't be 2-3 specs from other classes parsing higher than us across the board and ESPECIALLY not bi-role classes having two dps specs above us.

Just my 2c and it's been said before.

Tuning will only happen when they FINALLY notice we're the only melee without a built-in on demand cleave attack and change our mastery back to what it was, rather than being judgment of colossal smash. ..Or think "HHMMM IF WE MAKE JUDGMENT A BUFF ON THE PALLY, IT MIGHT BE STOMACHABLE SO THEY AREN'T SHAFTED ON TARGET SWAPPING, AND CHOKED ON AOE CAUSE JUDGMENT HITS A MAX 2 TARGETS, WHILE THE REST LAUGHT AT THEM SINCE THEIR MASTERY DOESN'T REGISTER AS EVEN BEING THERE AS A STAT FOR THE OTHERS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL"

Blizzard logic. ..Bullet proof as always.

[idpsutank]

Got sat on heroic il'gynoth, hooray for target switching.

[Ryuji]

If I'm stubborn and like to use DP for ST what would compliment it better : Zeal or Greater J ?

I find Zeal to be very meh in any situation. Fires does better for ST since you get quicker ones out + you never have downtime + the proc for only costing 2 HP instead of 3 sometimes. Greater Judge does better when there's more than 2 targets at any time which happens to be a lot of the time.

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I know the potions are stupidly expensive at the moment but from what I've been reading across a couple sites and from guildies, melee users like an arms warrior and another ret in my guild say they are getting better results from Potion of the Old War over Potion of Deadly Grace and it's consistent. Was it fixed?

[ThePants999]

Yes, Old War is fixed. Use it.

[Deleted]

How did you guys enjoy Il'gynoth? I swear i was ready to strangle a blizz dev after that (not meant to be taken literally).

Judgment debuff is the worst. :/

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wrong it is not a 10% increase. its a 10% increase of the base dmg. so no interactions with mastery and most certainly not crit. TV/SD crit? doesn´t matter 10% of normal dmg before mastery. Judgement debuff up? don´t care 10% of base dmg.
Result is that this trait gets weaker with every point in vers,crit and mastery.

I can confirm it can crit. I got the trait. It does not represent a 10% damage increase though as it only applied to finishers (obviously).
It also seems based on the TV damage.

My log on the dummy:
TV hits for 230071
TV hits for 45911 (critical)


That was with judgment on the target. It does seem to hit for 10% of the damage (or very close) and can crit on top of that.

More data:
TV hits for 427395 (critical)
TV hits for 42615 (critical)

So, it bases its damage from the base non crit damage of the TV with judgement, but it can crit. Always seems to do just a tiny bit shy of the 10% though.

[gratax]

I were actually on 2nd place on single target bosses....

But then again, my blessing of might was on 2nd place damage source.

However, how shit is the Ravaged Seed Pod? I got a 670 HC WF Yesterday, I don't understand the meaning of it.

[OrcsRLame]

How did you guys enjoy Il'gynoth? I swear i was ready to strangle a blizz dev after that (not meant to be taken literally).

Judgment debuff is the worst. :/

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I can confirm it can crit. I got the trait. It does not represent a 10% damage increase though as it only applied to finishers (obviously).
It also seems based on the TV damage.

My log on the dummy:
TV hits for 230071
TV hits for 45911 (critical)


That was with judgment on the target. It does seem to hit for 10% of the damage (or very close) and can crit on top of that.

More data:
TV hits for 427395 (critical)
TV hits for 42615 (critical)

So, it bases its damage from the base non crit damage of the TV with judgement, but it can crit. Always seems to do just a tiny bit shy of the 10% though.

Il'gynoth was fine. I did pretty decent, but I made a huge mistake that cost me a lot of dps. I wasn't thinking and hit my second pot when Crusade wasn't up, because I thought the second eye phase would end before that, because arithmetic is hard. Finished at 223k, which would put me at rank 32 if my guild's logs weren't private. As if my guild is important enough to warrant private logs. Can't rank on anything... If I hadn't fucked up my second pot, I'd have done another ~4 mil, so around a ~3-4% dps increase. 6th On damage in my guild. The top 6 were all reasonably close, except one of our MM hunters and our Havoc DH tore shit up. The DH did like 286k.

I ran Zeal, but I'm not sure I'm going to next week. The Ichors are really easy to cleave down, and single target on the tank adds is really important. There's the cluster of 3 tentacles that spawns out in East Bumblefuck, but we just had ranged and the more mobile melee blows those up real quick. I think our niche on that fight is raping tank adds with Crusade. I absolutely raped the dominator tentacles, but I could have done even more if I was pure single target.

[Deleted]

Not crit? My Echo proc crits sometimes, but its crit is not related to TV's crit. So your TV crits but Echo doesn't, or your TV does not crit but Echo crits.

Also my 10% Echo takes into account the actual tooltip damage from TV which, in fact, includes the Versatility bonus :S

was solely referring to how the base dmg for the 10% proc. My point was that even if your base TV crits you don´t profit from it on echo. Thought it woulod be obvious on my next sentence, apparently not.
That it scales with vers is new to me thanks for pointing this out. Also explains why vers sims so high for us.

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How did you guys enjoy Il'gynoth? I swear i was ready to strangle a blizz dev after that (not meant to be taken literally).

Judgment debuff is the worst. :/

- - - Updated - - -



I can confirm it can crit. I got the trait. It does not represent a 10% damage increase though as it only applied to finishers (obviously).
It also seems based on the TV damage.

My log on the dummy:
TV hits for 230071
TV hits for 45911 (critical)


That was with judgment on the target. It does seem to hit for 10% of the damage (or very close) and can crit on top of that.

More data:
TV hits for 427395 (critical)
TV hits for 42615 (critical)

So, it bases its damage from the base non crit damage of the TV with judgement, but it can crit. Always seems to do just a tiny bit shy of the 10% though.

as with Anardel sorry for not being clear enough. My point was that it does not profit from TV/DS crits

[Vuagnon]

do you not know being middle of the pack/lower is good as it means we're balanced and won't get nerfed?

Being overpowered isn't good for obvious reasons but we aren't in a respectable position either.

[Deleted]

Il'gynoth was fine. I did pretty decent, but I made a huge mistake that cost me a lot of dps. I wasn't thinking and hit my second pot when Crusade wasn't up, because I thought the second eye phase would end before that, because arithmetic is hard. Finished at 223k, which would put me at rank 32 if my guild's logs weren't private. As if my guild is important enough to warrant private logs. Can't rank on anything... If I hadn't fucked up my second pot, I'd have done another ~4 mil, so around a ~3-4% dps increase. 6th On damage in my guild. The top 6 were all reasonably close, except one of our MM hunters and our Havoc DH tore shit up. The DH did like 286k.

I ran Zeal, but I'm not sure I'm going to next week. The Ichors are really easy to cleave down, and single target on the tank adds is really important. There's the cluster of 3 tentacles that spawns out in East Bumblefuck, but we just had ranged and the more mobile melee blows those up real quick. I think our niche on that fight is raping tank adds with Crusade. I absolutely raped the dominator tentacles, but I could have done even more if I was pure single target.

Fair enough. I went single target and blew up the core. Things were dieing too fast for me to have judgment debuff on everything so i stoped trying. I will be doing it on heroic later this week. Hopefully things survive longer.

[Deno]

I were actually on 2nd place on single target bosses....

But then again, my blessing of might was on 2nd place damage source.

However, how shit is the Ravaged Seed Pod? I got a 670 HC WF Yesterday, I don't understand the meaning of it.

I actually wonder about that too. Got 870 version of it last night and I'm not sure if it's better than 845 horn of valor.

Any comments?