Can Islam And Western Society Ever Peacefully Co-exist?

[Deleted]

No, islam cant even coexist with islam, there is no room for critism of islam within islam, let alone from outside their communities.

Meanwhile all (accounting for margin of error) terror acts are borne from islam in one way or another but all of the current european leaders still refuse to stop this madness. Things must change, and finally things are getting bad enough for enough people to have come to realise this. Next election things will start changing for the better, because islam will start to fade in the west

[Deleted]

Not unless they give up their views and religious fundamentalism, no.

[Tumble]

Well, that's not really true? Many articles claim that a lot of the extremist have a history of crime, alcohol intake and little interest in praying until they got radicalized. They are often referred to as "bad muslims" long before they picked up a gun or explosives.

Anyone can write an article, that doesn't make them fact. What fact we do know is that there are far and above more radical muslims than ANY other religion on this planet. You can't dispute that claim, well you could but you'd be wrong. Also, what constitutes a good muslim? One who kills his sister for being raped? one who rapes a women who has no husband and is alone outside? Or kills someone who doesn't believe in allah? Good is a very loose term.

[Jotaux]

Ru really going there about the Bible and Homosexuality?

U do know you are about to get blown out of the fukking water right?

HOMOSEXUALITY IS LEGAL IN THE WEST. (Christian countries)

HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLEGAL IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

Ffs dude who gives a fukk about interpretation of the Bible or the Qu'ran... it means absolutely fukk all to this discussion. We are discussing laws of the land here. We are discussing WESTERN SOCIETY Vs a religion.

The laws within Western Society are not open to interpretation, theyre set in stone facts. Therefore who gives a flying fukk what it says in the bible.

We are discussing whether those set in stone laws are compatible with Islam. Sheesh dude get your head together.

The point is that if Christianity is compatible with western society then so is Islam.

[Deleted]

The plain and simple anwser is.... of course not. Never ever, unless we succumb to their outdated ideology.

And don't get me wrong I am not some random guy who has no idea what is he speaking about, due to my work I used to work for a while (tourism) I encountered many of "radical, unradical, civilized and uncivilized muslims" almost all around in their countries, in Western Europe etc, asimilated ones and those not.

And there are some things you need to know about "muslims" to simply understand it better.
1 thing. If you are heathen (non muslim) and admitted that, by your actions, sentence or anything to ANY muslim (and I mean ANY, those radical, those less and even those who seems like a really nice guys!), you are instantly an inferior human being to them. Something that should be exploited, eradicated or simply removed unless "it" becomes muslim. That is one thing that most of "western world" not only forget but doesn't seem to notice...because how could you instantly despise people cause of their religon, right? Right. Muslims do, but here is the tricky part, those unradical ones(the other ones, more stupid and less subtle would spit in your face or even beat you cause of that) would "pretend" to like you, to be your friends, to help you in times of need and even invite you to their home/dinner (probably biggest sacrifice for their religion) but that's just pretending, it's fake and temporary (because you might be converted to islam!) but they would, with a smile on their face, put a knife in your back for some even meaningless gain, "for greater good", because for them, you are not equal to them, simply inferior. That alone make it impossible to coexistence, because there can't be any coexistence when there is no mutual respect and muslims, don't respect anybody but muslims. Sad but true. Even in their holy book it is justified. So, if You have a muslim "friend" keep that in the back of your head, that's only a fake mask for them. Or live by this lie and cry later.

2) Islam is not exactly religion. It is more like a state, a rule under the umbrella of religion. It expands in most vital parts of ones life not only giving you "advices" how to live, but telling you exactly how to live, what to do, whom to like and whom to kill. And this Ideology, because that word better describes islam is meant for conquest.
"There will be no peace unless islams conquer with muslims only lef". This sentence describes this ideology best.

3) Islam is in every aspect fundamental. When you are reading bible, you can understand is as an allegory, when you read koran you "have to" understand it as a fact, fundamental fact. And all those interpretations, they don't matter, quaran or koran, is the core, so when it tells you to kill infidels, you kill them. If bible tells you to take "eye for an eye" you think, "naah, that's stupid and outdated", Christians can adjust to their teachings, muslims can't, they have to follow. Islam is a yoke to them, yoke for the glory of their god.

So, with that in mind, there can't be no peace unless we don't succumb to this religion and even if i am not a christian anymore i would stand with them against this common threat, because being atheist for Christian may end with disdain or disappointment....being atheist for muslim, might end with beheading.

Of course muslims probably would swarm those claims telling that "you can't generalize" or "not every muslim is like that" but well, go back to point number one, that is simply what they do.

[tankbug]

There absolutely is reason. Islam preaches overthrowing the government to install it's law. There's no such line of thought in the Bible. Jesus is the quintessential Christian and he submits to secular authority and allows himself to be killed by them. Muhammad is the quintessential Muslim and he's a warmongering pedo who tries to spread their word by the sword.

And yet, the Christians have overthrown governments to install Christianity just as much, or more. They have also done horrible crimes against humanity in the name of their God and savior. Things that are explicitly forbidden in the texts. Jesus preaches about love and respect for the "weak" and the penitent, but often scolds the rich and powerful for their greed. Yet, a lot of the wealthy people in the world are conservative christians. How can that make sense?
Jews don't really care about Jesus that much, and the old testament is about obeying the one true God, and how some people are better than others. But they aren't going on murderous rampages to turn or kill the non-believers.

Can this mean that the text itself is irrelevant, compared to how religion is practiced?

[Deleted]

The point is that if Christianity is compatible with western society then so is Islam.

Western society is A RESULT of Christianity.

Western society is 100% based on Christian morality and ethics.

Western Society has next to zero influence from Islam, and that is why Islam is counter to Western Society.

[May90]

HOMOSEXUALITY IS LEGAL IN THE WEST. (Christian countries)

HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLEGAL IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

Homosexuality is legal in some Muslim countries.
Homosexuality used to be illegal in all Christian countries.

The Western society has simply gone past religious dogmas, while most of the Eastern ones have not.

Also, it doesn't matter what the books themselves say about the matter: homosexuality used to be considered sin in Christianity, and whether the books agree with it or not, the clergy agreed. It is the same here: no matter what Quran could be saying about it, religious leaders can twist the narrative however they want.

---

When religion wins in a society over pragmatism, no matter how "good" the religion is - the system is inherently flawed and unstable. The Universe doesn't know what a god is, it just works its way, and if people choose to ignore the reality and appeal for higher powers to guide their society - then they will be detached from reality, and they will make a lot of shitty decisions.

[Deleted]

Those attacks were not done in the name of a religion.

We are talking about Honour Killings. A very Muslim problem.

Honour killings are not exclusive to the Islam. Even if they where if exclusively committed by Muslims and it is still a tiny fraction of Muslims within a specific area with a specific background. That makes it a socio-economic problem within a Muslim population.

You say "In the name of religion". I agree with this. People hide behind religion to justify their abuse of power. However religion is seldom the driving force. It's things like frustration, fear, anger and desperation mixed with power abuse, similar to the attacks I described. It's just an empty label to justify the means.

[Deleted]

Homosexuality is legal in some Muslim countries.
Homosexuality used to be illegal in all Christian countries.

Who cares?

That has zero to do with this discussion. Read the title on the thread because it has fukk all to do with the past... its about NOW.

[Blobfish]

90 percent of Muslims are great people

I remember one day I was walking home, no car , no transport and my destination was like 20KM (18 miles away).

A Muslim fella stopped and picked me up, told me a bit about his religion..but wasn't overboard
and took himself out of the way to drop me off.

Unfortunately with all these stupid terrorist attacks taking place, the word Muslim drums up
fear, explosions, be-headings in the mind of the average westerner.

[Draco-Onis]

Western society is A RESULT of Christianity.

Western society is 100% based on Christian morality and ethics.

Western Society has next to zero influence from Islam, and that is why Islam is counter to Western Society.

Western society has gone out of it's way to split itself from religion because no one wanted the disaster that was the middle ages to happen again. Christian morals are no better than that of Islam if you doubt it look into African and some Caribbean countries where the church has basically taken over government. From the aids epidemic to the killings of homosexuals and non Christians, people in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

[Themius]

Ru really going there about the Bible and Homosexuality?

U do know you are about to get blown out of the fukking water right?

HOMOSEXUALITY IS LEGAL IN THE WEST. (Christian countries)

HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLEGAL IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

Ffs dude who gives a fukk about interpretation of the Bible or the Qu'ran... it means absolutely fukk all to this discussion. We are discussing laws of the land here. We are discussing WESTERN SOCIETY Vs a religion.

The laws within Western Society are not open to interpretation, theyre set in stone facts. Therefore who gives a flying fukk what it says in the bible.

We are discussing whether those set in stone laws are compatible with Islam. Sheesh dude get your head together.

What about all the African Christian countries? Are they "not included" in this talk about "Christian countries"

[May90]

Who cares?

That has zero to do with this discussion. Read the title on the thread because it has fukk all to do with the past... its about NOW.

You sound jumpy. Sowwy, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings!

What is now is connected to what was in the past. In 1600, if you said in a Christian country that homosexuality is okay, you would be deemed a heretic, a crazy psycho, many other nice things. Now look at, say, Iran. Islam to modern Iran is pretty much what Christianity was to Europe in 1600.

See my point? It is not about religion itself, it is about whether it takes over common sense or not.

[Deleted]

Problem isnt really your avarage joe (muhammed?) but the ones that start to delve deeper into the faith. Alot of people are just muslims because they got born into it like me being born into a secular familly yet being part of the church of sweden by default.

Having you dick cut does not a muslim make.

[Tiev]

Religion Fundamentalism is not compatible with western society. The trouble is determining who are the radicals. Those can go rot away somewhere else.

[TwoNineMarine]

Fundamental Islam = No.

They will not adapt to western society or government at all.

Luckily there aren't a ton of those out there.

That being said they are the vocal minority and are causing a rift between peaceful Muslims and everyone else. And at some point that is going to snap.

[Deleted]

You sound jumpy. Sowwy, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings!

What is now is connected to what was in the past. In 1600, if you said in a Christian country that homosexuality is okay, you would be deemed a heretic, a crazy psycho, many other nice things. Now look at, say, Iran. Islam to modern Iran is pretty much what Christianity was to Europe in 1600.

See my point? It is not about religion itself, it is about whether it takes over common sense or not.

If u read what i posted i also said "who cares whats written in the bible"... we are not discussing the past or interpretation here.

I completely agree that this thread has fukk all to do with interpretation... its a simple question WESTERN SOCIETY vs ISLAM.

- - - Updated - - -

What about all the African Christian countries? Are they "not included" in this talk about "Christian countries"

This thread is about WESTERN SOCIETY therefore African Christianity is irrelevant to the question.

[May90]

If u read what i posted i also said "who cares whats written in the bible"... we are not discussing the past or interpretation here.

I completely agree that this thread has fukk all to do with interpretation... its a simple question WESTERN SOCIETY vs ISLAM.

If Western society can coexist peacefully with Christianity, let alone be founded on Christian culture - then it surely can coexist peacefully with Islam. I don't see a fundamental difference.

[Deleted]

Who cares?

That has zero to do with this discussion. Read the title on the thread because it has fukk all to do with the past... its about NOW.

You do realise that the largest Christian country in the world is also the most aggressively homophobic. I have a couple gay friends that fled. Their friends are still actively being locked up. Homosexuality might be legal but that doesn't mean much if open gay people tend to "disappear". That's if the state gets you before the vigilantes do.