Why does no one read the Quran before defending it?

[Slant]

I see it everywhere on this forum and others. Why do people defend to the death something they show time and time again to have no understanding of?

It is utterly maddening to me.

Why do you need to make a new topic for every random thought hitting your head? Questions and questions... and no answers. Too bad.

[Machismo]

But they don't agree that the God of the others is the God of Abraham. Thus it is false to state that they worship the same God.

I didn't say that they believed that the others were worshiping the same God. I said that they all believe THEY are worshiping the God of Abraham. They all worship the God of Abaham. Many simply don't want to believe that others are worshiping the God of Abraham.

[Forogil]

What is different between western, southern, eastern and northern europe?

Estern Europe is the difference: Russia still formally has the death-penalty - and Belarus seems to be actively using it.

But no EU country has the death-penalty - and if Turkey re-introduces it for traitor it seems clear that its EU-application is shredded.

[Holas]

Yes. Some versions have books thrown out and some versions have books added in.


King james version
New international version
New revised standard version
Roman catholics have their own version

...etc

ok thats not the bible. The bible is the jewish book from which Christianity and Quran copied some thing. The bible have one version. The rest I really don't know.

I didn't know people refer to other books apart from the "Jewish Bible" as bible.

[Felnoire]

Religious Education is only mandatory until year 9, after which it becomes optional.

RE in my school was taught by an atheist world-wandering former hippy, who taught us about everything from Islam to Hinduism to Zoroastrianism and everythng inbetween.

It was mandatory for me till I was 16, hence GCSE. I'm not complaining, it was an easy pass even with handwriting as bad as mine. I can't speak of other's experiences with how RE was taught, as I did not experience it. I'd have loved to have had a varied RE class, as that's what I expected from a class that was mean to be about Religious Education. But then I suspect you didn't go to a protestant school in northern Ireland >.>

English, Math, French, History, Single award Science, and RE were the compulsory GCSE choices we had at my school when I went there. That was half a life ago literally, 14 when choices and 16 when testing was over with. So 16 years ago when I given my choices. Though my English teacher was the world travelling hippy in our school.

[Aucald]

But they don't agree that the God of the others is the God of Abraham. Thus it is false to state that they worship the same God.

They do, actually. Most Muslims admit that the god of the Christians and the Jews is the god of Abraham. It's the succession of prophets that really underscores the main difference between the three religions. Muslims think that Jesus was prophet of god, that he was in no way biologically divine (e.g. he had no celestial heritage), and that he wasn't the messiah. The Jews accept neither Muhammad nor Jesus as legitimate prophets, and the Muslims believe that Muhammad was the Seal of the Prophets (e.g. the last of them to appear before the end of creation) but they don't believe he was biologically divine.

[Forogil]

I didn't say that they believed that the others were worshiping the same God. I said that they all believe THEY are worshiping the God of Abraham. They all worship the God of Abaham. Many simply don't want to believe that others are worshiping the God of Abraham.

And respecting the belief of others mean to respect that belief - since if Christians claim that Muslim don't worship the same God as they do, then they DON'T worship the same God. Since Jews claim that Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, then they DON'T worship the same God.

That is simple matter of respecting the belief of others; instead of putting a false label on people.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

The bible have multiple versions? what?

The 'Wicked Bible' is the version I adhere to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible

You can't show Muhammed on TV.

Plot Twist: This is not actually in the Quran, which does not forbid images of Muhammad.

[Deleted]

I see it everywhere on this forum and others. Why do people defend to the death something they show time and time again to have no understanding of?

It is utterly maddening to me.

It is an actual madness. Simple as that.

[Forogil]

They do, actually. Most Muslims admit that the god of the Christians and the Jews is the god of Abraham.

You are totally missing the point. Most Christian reject that Muslim God is their God, and most Jews reject that the Christian God is their God. You are basically saying that Christians and Jews are wrong - and you don't care about their beliefs.

[Machismo]

And respecting the belief of others mean to respect that belief - since if Christians claim that Muslim don't worship the same God as they do, then they DON'T worship the same God. Since Jews claim that Christians don't worship the same God as Jews, then they DON'T worship the same God.

That is simple matter of respecting the belief of others; instead of putting a false label on people.

Do Christians believe they worship the God of Abraham? Yes.

Do Jews believe they worship the God of Abraham? Yes.

Do Muslims believe they worship the God of Abraham? Yes.

I guess I should respect the belief of others, and state that they all worship the same God (or that three completely different gods revealed themselves to Abraham).

Of course, if you think I should believe one person when he tells me what he believes a complete stranger is, or is not believing... that adds an entire degree of separation. Logic dictates that I go by the initial claims of each, which is that they all believe they worship the God of Abraham.

I'll put it a different way:

Person 1: 1+1=2

Person 2: 1+1=2

Person 3: 1+1=2

Person 1: I believe that Person 2 believes that 1+1=3.

Person 2: I believe that Person 3 believes that 1+1=3.

Person 3: I believe both Person 1 and Person 2 believe that 1+1=3.

They all still believe that 1+1=2. They are simply wrong on what they believe someone else believes.

[Mayhem]

For the same reason why most Christians never read the Bible, but they seem to know with 100% certainty what God thinks about every issue.

Having read both...I can tell you that one is no more violent than the other, or crazier than the other.

Now, the Hadith on the other hand is more of a moving goal post, especially as there are 4 different versions of it. For example Sufi's (mystic pacifists) and Wahhabis (the Al-Qaeda/ISIS sort) read the same collection of Hadith's with WILDLY different conclusions.

But again, this isn't much different to how for example Christian Dominionists (end of the world, death cult and Christian supremacists) or Quiverfull Fundamentalists (Patriarchy loons) and for example Jehova's Witnesses (apolitical pacifists) read the Bible and come to WILDLY different conclusions.

Not surprisingly this post was ignored by the OP.

[Felnoire]

You are totally missing the point. Most Christian reject that Muslim God is their God, and most Jews reject that the Christian God is their God. You are basically saying that Christians and Jews are wrong - and you don't care about their beliefs.

Well they are wrong, they all came from the same religion and call the same god aka the god of Abraham their god. There is no ground for someone to deny it's the same god, as Abraham only had a single god so if all three believe their god is that god all three are believing in the same god. It's not written in any of the religious texts of either religion that the other two are not following the god of Abraham, actually is written in the Quran the Jews and Christians are following the same god as them aka the god of Abraham. So by the logic you're using that is suggesting Islam is wrong and you don't care about their beliefs.
Honoring their belief does not mean accepting it as correct, after all if I honored the beliefs of all religions I'd be accepting as correct a fair few contradicting claims. They're welcome to belief what they want, it doesn't make it any less false that the three religions all believe the God of Abraham is their god.

[Forogil]

Do Christians believe they worship the God of Abraham? Yes.

That's not the common way for Christians to describe their faith.

I guess I should respect the belief of others, and state that they all worship the same God (or that three completely different gods revealed themselves to Abraham).

Nope, you should respect the belief of others and state that they all worship different Gods - since that is what most of them claim.
They all believe that someone named Abraham existed and God revealed himself to that person - but that doesn't mean they believe that God is the same.
Is it really so hard to understand that others are different?

[Aggrophobic]

I see it everywhere on this forum and others. Why do people defend to the death something they show time and time again to have no understanding of?

It is utterly maddening to me.

I have. I've also read the Bible and they are both kinda horrible.

Not that I've made a habit of defending any of them.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Nope, you should respect the belief of others and state that they all worship different Gods - since that is what most of them claim.
They all believe that someone named Abraham existed and God revealed himself to that person - but that doesn't mean they believe that God is the same.
Is it really so hard to understand that others are different?

Except the Abraham they are all referring to is historically considered to be the same person. So....

[Machismo]

That's not the common way for Christians to describe their faith.


Nope, you should respect the belief of others and state that they all worship different Gods - since that is what most of them claim.
They all believe that someone named Abraham existed and God revealed himself to that person - but that doesn't mean they believe that God is the same.
Is it really so hard to understand that others are different?

Why should I believe you when you tell me what someone else believes, when I have already asked that person directly, and he said he believes something different than what you say? Who is the more reliable source? Who's opinion holds more weight? If I ask you if you like carrots, and you say you do, that's pretty clear. If I ask a total stranger if you like carrots, and he says you don't, whom shall I believe? Should I believe you, or should I believe the other guy? The same logic is applied to this. If someone says they worship the God of Abraham, then that is what you should go off of. Now, if you have someone who says HE doesn't worship the God of Abraham, then that would clarify it. Since all three religions ascribe to the belief of the God of Abraham, then you have your answer.

Once again:

Person 1: 1+1=2

Person 2: 1+1=2

Person 3: 1+1=2

Person 1: I believe that Person 2 believes that 1+1=3.

Person 2: I believe that Person 3 believes that 1+1=3.

Person 3: I believe both Person 1 and Person 2 believe that 1+1=3.

They all still believe that 1+1=2. They are simply wrong on what they believe someone else believes.

[Forogil]

Well they are wrong,

The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims? Of course.

So by the logic you're using that is suggesting Islam is wrong and you don't care about their beliefs.

The religious beliefs of the person holding that belief is more important than what others believe of his faith.
So if a Christian don't believe that he himself is worshipping the God of Islam then I respect that more than the belief of a Muslim who says that the Christians are flawed(*) believers in the God of Islam.
*: Since the divinity of Christ is somewhat important in Christianity.

[anon5123]

I see it everywhere on this forum and others. Why do people defend to the death something they show time and time again to have no understanding of?

It is utterly maddening to me.

Same thing happens with every religion, m8.

See: Christian bigots endlessly spouting that one verse from Leviticus that condemns homosexuality, while ignoring the rest of the book, which says lovely things about how anyone who works on a Sunday shall be put to death, children who curse should be stoned, and women who are raped must marry their rapists. Don't forget that one time where god send a bunch of bears to maul a few children because they teased some old guy about being bald.

Nobody actually reads the holy books, because if they did, they'd become an atheist after seeing all the horrible bronze age morality said holy books contain.

[Venziir]

That's not the common way for Christians to describe their faith.


Nope, you should respect the belief of others and state that they all worship different Gods - since that is what most of them claim.
They all believe that someone named Abraham existed and God revealed himself to that person - but that doesn't mean they believe that God is the same.
Is it really so hard to understand that others are different?

That's because most Christians don't know shit about their own religion. All the 3 major monotheistic religions are refered to as The Abrahamic Faiths for a reason, same reason as to why they all refer to Abraham/Ibrahim as one of the patriarcs.