Why does no one read the Quran before defending it?

[Machismo]

The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims? Of course.


The religious beliefs of the person holding that belief is more important than what others believe of his faith.
So if a Christian don't believe that he himself is worshipping the God of Islam then I respect that more than the belief of a Muslim who says that the Christians are flawed(*) believers in the God of Islam.
*: Since the divinity of Christ is somewhat important in Christianity.

You just made the exact same error you are complaining about. If a Muslim says he worships the God of Abraham (which they tend to do), then a Christian who worships the God of Abraham (which they tend to do) does not get to say that the Muslim does not worship the God of Abraham.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims? Of course.


The religious beliefs of the person holding that belief is more important than what others believe of his faith.
So if a Christian don't believe that he himself is worshipping the God of Islam then I respect that more than the belief of a Muslim who says that the Christians are flawed(*) believers in the God of Islam.
*: Since the divinity of Christ is somewhat important in Christianity.

That is quite true indeed. Muslims do respect Jesus and revere him. It is an article of faith for Muslims to believe in Jesus Christ. We believe in his virgin birth, we believe he healed the sick and gave life to the dead by God's will.

Muslims are not allowed to make a mockery of any faith. The Quran forbids it. It calls for peace and asks the others faiths to come and sit down so that we may come to common terms.

The problem is that most muslims still go around insulting people and backlashing to being offended instead of acting as the Quran tells us to act.

The question of the divinity of Christ is answered in the bible again and again. There is no question about it.
Jesus himself said:

Mark 24: 32-36:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Mat 8:20
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



Jesus again and again states that he is sent by God.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

The religious beliefs of the person holding that belief is more important than what others believe of his faith.
So if a Christian don't believe that he himself is worshipping the God of Islam then I respect that more than the belief of a Muslim who says that the Christians are flawed(*) believers in the God of Islam.
*: Since the divinity of Christ is somewhat important in Christianity.

A person can believe whatever they want, it doesn't automatically grant that belief any historical or theocratic merit. That the three primary monotheistic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, all share the same origin and are evolutions of the Abrahamic religion is a widely understood and accepted fact both among general historians and religious scholars. Someone sitting and going "Well I don't buy that, I think different!" doesn't change any of that.
I can decide that Santa Claus is a depiction of God, given his image as an elderly bearded man fits with common depictions of God. His bringing of gifts stems from the birth of Christ, which was brought from the heavens as a gift on the first Christmas to the Virgin Mary and so on so on blah blah blah. I can think that all I want. It has no bearing on what is generally accepted to be historically and culturally accurate.

[Forogil]

You just made the exact same error you are complaining about. If a Muslim says he worships the God of Abraham (which they tend to do), then a Christian who worships the God of Abraham (which they tend to do) does not get to say that the Muslim does not worship the God of Abraham.

Wrong. The point wasn't whether they believed they worshipped 'the God of Abraham' but whether they worship the same God.
The Christian states that he doesn't believe he worships the same God as the Muslim, and that the Muslims don't worship the same God as he do.
The Muslim states that he believes that the Christian worships the same God - except that the Christian got a few fundamental facts wrong.

If you don't see a difference - then you are just deluding yourself.

[Dendrek]

I guarantee you the majority of people who defend the Bible have barely read any of it (and that includes most Christians). Do you lambaste them for defending Christianity?

How much of the Quran must a person read before they are allowed to defend it?

Do you think it's ok to condemn Islam or the Quran without reading it?

Do I need to bring up any more loaded questions before you realize how ridiculous this thread's question is?

[Forogil]

A person can believe whatever they want, it doesn't automatically grant that belief any historical or theocratic merit. That the three primary monotheistic religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, all share the same origin and are evolutions of the Abrahamic religion is a widely understood and accepted fact both among general historians and religious scholars.

Yes, they are historically related - and Judaism can trace roots to previous polytheistic religions as well, and Christianity can trace its roots to other religions as well - including Christmas inherited from completely different religions during the roman era.
However, stating that religions are historically related doesn't mean that they are all the same - and that the Gods are the same.

[Mihalik]

Wrong. The point wasn't whether they believed they worshipped 'the God of Abraham' but whether they worship the same God.
The Christian states that he doesn't believe he worships the same God as the Muslim, and that the Muslims don't worship the same God as he do.
The Muslim states that he believes that the Christian worships the same God - except that the Christian got a few fundamental facts wrong.

If you don't see a difference - then you are just deluding yourself.

None of what you said made much sense.

What you are basically saying is that Guy who doesn't know jack shit about his own religion or about the religion of the other Guy states that he doesn't believe in the same God as the other Guy.

The entire argument is irrelevant. Unless you say that God is a personal figment of everyone's imagination (which I mostly agree with, tho that would ignore the Historical and Cultural aspects of religion). Otherwise people who actually know shit about religion agree that both dudes worship the same God with different rites.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Wrong. The point wasn't whether they believed they worshipped 'the God of Abraham' but whether they worship the same God.
The Christian states that he doesn't believe he worships the same God as the Muslim, and that the Muslims don't worship the same God as he do.
The Muslim states that he believes that the Christian worships the same God - except that the Christian got a few fundamental facts wrong.

If you don't see a difference - then you are just deluding yourself.

The Jews believe in the God of Abraham (that's as far as I know).

Christians are torn between believing in God, The Son, and the holy ghost. Some believe God is 3 in 1. Some believe Jesus is a prophet of God, and some believe that Jesus himself is God, and there are those who believe God is in heaven and Jesus is his begotten son.

Muslims believe in one God. The God of adam, up to Abraham, to David, Jesus and then to Mohammed. Muslims believe that all messengers have been sent with one message. Believe in one true God, and be in peace.

[Machismo]

Wrong. The point wasn't whether they believed they worshipped 'the God of Abraham' but whether they worship the same God.
The Christian states that he doesn't believe he worships the same God as the Muslim, and that the Muslims don't worship the same God as he do.
The Muslim states that he believes that the Christian worships the same God - except that the Christian got a few fundamental facts wrong.

If you don't see a difference - then you are just deluding yourself.

If they all believe they worship the God of Abraham (which they do), then there's only three logical conclusions. Either three different gods revealed themselves to Abraham, three separate gods revealed themselves to three different Abrahams, or they all worship the same God who revealed himself to Abraham. Historically, and contextually, there is almost certainly only a single Abraham. So, you are left with only two conclusions, and do we really want to get into trying to determine the odds of three different gods reveling themselves to the same man, in the same manner?

[Felnoire]

The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims? Of course.


The religious beliefs of the person holding that belief is more important than what others believe of his faith.
So if a Christian don't believe that he himself is worshipping the God of Islam then I respect that more than the belief of a Muslim who says that the Christians are flawed(*) believers in the God of Islam.
*: Since the divinity of Christ is somewhat important in Christianity.

Which suggests you misinterpret what respecting someone else's belief is, as you're not actually respecting the other person's belief at all if you just go around claiming they're wrong cause your belief says otherwise. Fact of the matter is there was Judaism, Abraham and his God YHWH come from this religion. Along comes Jesus, who still supports the faith in YHWH but has a new message from YHWH and those that follow his message are called Christians. Now we've two religions following YHWH but with differing views on how YHWH wants them to live, YHWH is still at the top of this religion and some call YHWH, Jehovah (which is a vocalization of YHWH). Now here comes another prophet (which is how Muslims see Jesus) called Muhammed, who still supports faith in YHWH whose name in Arabic is Allah, he calls to the people with his view of said deity and those that follow him become known as Islam/Muslim. Two of these faiths are offshoots from the main, and as such have been following the same YHWH though in differing interpretations. Do I believe this to be the absolute truth? Doesn't matter what I believe, they came from the same faith as have all those branches on the Christian tree of reformations and thus were all following the same god.
Do I believe any of them are right about their interpretation of this YHWH? Nope, but then what I believe has little to do with this. As it comes down to following the genealogy of the religions over what someone believes, they're welcome to believe it all they want. Doesn't alter that Islam and Christianity split from the mother religion of Judaism due to different prophets views of the same god. Any more than if I held a belief that rain was the tears of angels, alters the truth that rain is just precipitation of water in a cycle of evaporation and condensation.

[Forogil]

The Jews believe in the God of Abraham (that's as far as I know).

Christians are torn between believing in God, The Son, and the holy ghost. Some believe God is 3 in 1. Some believe Jesus is a prophet of God, and some believe that Jesus himself is God, and there are those who believe God is in heaven and Jesus is his begotten son.

No. Almost all Christian faiths believe that Jesus is God and the son of God, as part of the trinity. I have not heard of any modern (meaning last 1700 years) major Christian faiths that believe Jesus was just a prophet of God.

[Deleted]

Can you believe in religious freedom without allowing other to denounce harmful ones?

I really don't see how that is a positive thing.

No, i do not think you can. In the end all of the religions are harmful, when you go and read about the doctrine there are always harmful aspects to them.
And you can't blame a book for what some of the people who read it do, its the same as blaming violence on video games.

[Mihalik]

Christians are torn between believing in God, The Son, and the holy ghost. Some believe God is 3 in 1. Some believe Jesus is a prophet of God, and some believe that Jesus himself is God, and there are those who believe God is in heaven and Jesus is his begotten son.

Not fully accurate but close enough.

Christians largely fit into two categories. Trinitarians and Unitarians.

Trinitarians believe that God, Son and Holy Spirit are manifestations of different characteristics of the same entity. Consider it like... personality traits. This is specifically important because in this creed Jesus is God himself made manifest.

Unitarians don't accept this, and while they believe in God, they see Jesus as a completely separate entity which is not a deity, thus see him to be human, albeit the literal son of God. (Think of it like all the different demi-gods in Greeco-Roman mythology, who never attained full godhood.)

This sort of means that Muslims are to some extent mostly in agreement with Unitarians in the sense that they don't think Jesus was a deity, but they also don't believe him being the literal son of God, in which they largely agree with Judaism, which rejects the idea of God going around making human babies with superpowers.

[Themius]

Because the majority of people who follow it aren't white, so it doesn't matter what it says, what it condones etc, it needs to be defended. Asking ISIS to stop trading in sex slaves, and murdering homosexuals is white oppression.

You realize that christian countries still do this right? Like oh Jamaica what with its ignoring violent crimes against gays that include beating, chopping, and burning to death. Or like Uganda where the names of people suspected to be gay are published in papers, and they even wanted to give the death penalty on it. That resurgence in Christianity btw can be traced by the American Evangelicals going on missions.

[Mihalik]

No. Almost all Christian faiths believe that Jesus is God and the son of God, as part of the trinity. I have not heard of any modern (meaning last 1700 years) major Christian faiths that believe Jesus was just a prophet of God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism

[Queen of Hamsters]

Why do so many defend religious scriptures even AFTER reading them...?

[Forogil]

Otherwise people who actually know shit about religion agree that both dudes worship the same God with different rites.

They don't agree on that. They agree on historic roots - but whether that the others worship the same God - combined with false beliefs, or just a different God is actually subject for debate.

[Venziir]

They don't agree on that. They agree on historic roots - but whether that the others worship the same God - combined with false beliefs, or just a different God is actually subject for debate.

Oh come on, the first Christian (Jesus) was a follower of the Jewish faith. He didn't go on and invent his own God, he just did a spin on Jahve,- it's the same guy. Then along came Muhammed and did a spin on the Bible and tadaaah; Islam!

[Independent voter]

If we have any experts here, I would like their scientific opinion: does Islam offer redemption other than martyrdom?

My scientific opinion about Christianity is redemption is very easy, you just ask Jesus and if you're sincere, you're redeemed.

The reason I'm asking is that if martyrdom is the only path to redemption after you've sinned a bunch, we're going to have martyrs.

[ComputerNerd]

Perhaps as the majority following those beliefs are not a threat then it isn't the Quran that is the problem, but how some opt to use it as a tool to further their own agenda.
That is simply a scapegoat.
There are plenty of people who committed an act "in the name of god", and that is with an equivalent text.
The lack of a book would not stop it happening.