Rift 4.0 - Starfall Prophecy

[ryanmahaffe]

Because of Steam, but 100% of jack shit is still jack shit. WS revenue is still in the gutter in a major way and there aren't really any growth prospects for the future now that F2P and Steam have gone live and the Chinese version was axed.

The games future isn't too bright. Even Rift, with all its struggles in recent years (it at least had the benefit of a very strong launch and F2P transition) is in an infinitely better position.

You sure about that? It can be argued that if trions other games didn't exist, RIFT would be shut down by now, there are maybe two servers with any real players, and both of the two have the minority of the playerbase on steam, and Wildstar steam usually averages a few hundred more than RIFT.

Wildstar didn't go up because of steam, steam was only out half a month before the quarter ended, it went up because of

New content release
Frequent store updates
SOUNDTRACK (biggest reason)
steam (smallest reason)

I can see that you are just as much a WS hater as people here are RIFT haters, saying RIFT is in an infinitely better position is laughable, at most it makes a few more million than Wildstar a quarter, and that is ONLY because of the frequent p2w and paywalls on the shop

Whatever, you a a moderator, so I am sure you can see continuing an argument like this would be derailment.

[Edge-]

You sure about that? It can be argued that if trions other games didn't exist, RIFT would be shut down by now, there are maybe two servers with any real players, and both of the two have the minority of the playerbase on steam, and Wildstar steam usually averages a few hundred more than RIFT.

Rift was what literally kept them afloat while Defiance crashed and burned out of the gates, End of Nations (I think that was the name of it) burned money in development hell, and they shut down global offices that they opened when they assumed that they'd continue their strong growth driven by Rift initially.

Yeah, it's flagged in recent years, there's no question. But Devilian has done...a whole lot of nothing, ArcheAge is likely generating some revenue, Defiance is still barely a thing, Trove seems to actually be doing well, and Atlas Reactor is having plenty of its own struggles making it to launch (switching from F2P to B2P but lacking players and with free weekends happening so often that they've transitioned back to basically F2P within a year...and the game isn't even out yet).

Given that Rift is still receiving pretty solid support, unlike other games like Devilian and Defiance, it's pretty reasonable to think that even despite the controversies the game has had and the damage that's been done to the game and Trion's reputations, that it's still turning a profit.

Wildstar didn't go up because of steam, steam was only out half a month before the quarter ended, it went up because of

Yes it did go up because of Steam, even with it's terrible launch there due to Carbine thinking that they don't need to do a marketing push to support it because "Steam does all the marketing for you".

New content release
Frequent store updates
SOUNDTRACK (biggest reason)
steam (smallest reason)

The soundtrack likely sold pretty well, but I doubt that the store updates or content updates (...I don't even think it had an update this quarter. The most recent one was mid-July which IIRC is after the second quarter ended in June). Steam is always a big bump for games when they launch there, so there's no reason to assume that it wasn't responsible for a large part of the revenue bump the game received this quarter.

I can see that you are just as much a WS hater

Nope, not at all. I quite enjoy the game and now that they've done a ton of work to it it's pretty fucking solid. Not my favorite game around, but it's something that I enjoy and would like to see stick around and continue to receive updates.

But that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of Carbines, quite frankly, pathetic handling of the title. Nor that I must be blind to the grim situation that the game remains in with the game never generating much revenue and seeing major layoffs multiple times.

as people here are RIFT haters, saying RIFT is in an infinitely better position is laughable

NCsoft still owns Carbine/WS at the end of the day, and they are not one to keep games that are dragging down revenue around. WildStars greatest strength now is that there aren't any other major Western titles in development, otherwise NCsoft would likely have already pulled the plug to free up resources/market share like what they did to CoH (which was generating around as much revenue as WS generated this quarter, except they were doing that every quarter) before GW2/WS launched.

Trion, on the other hand, has yet to actually shut down a live game. Rift is still seeing pretty steady updates, there is a small scale paid expansion in the works, and the Rift team hasn't suffered major layoffs.

So comparatively, Rift is in a much better place than WS. That's not because one is shit and the other isn't or because I hate one, but that's the reality of their situations.

at most it makes a few more million than Wildstar a quarter, and that is ONLY because of the frequent p2w and paywalls on the shop

Except that Rift has already more than paid off its initial development costs (I wouldn't be surprised if WS has barely covered those by now) by now and drove a huge amount of initial growth for Trion. While Wildstar continues to see very lackluster earnings (sadly we can't see Rifts, I'd love to) and never really "grew", it launched and started shrinking pretty much immediately (moving from monthly to quarterly updates, revenue dropping hard within one quarter, multiple rounds of deep layoffs etc.)

[ryanmahaffe]

Rift was what literally kept them afloat while Defiance crashed and burned out of the gates, End of Nations (I think that was the name of it) burned money in development hell, and they shut down global offices that they opened when they assumed that they'd continue their strong growth driven by Rift initially.

Yeah, it's flagged in recent years, there's no question. But Devilian has done...a whole lot of nothing, ArcheAge is likely generating some revenue, Defiance is still barely a thing, Trove seems to actually be doing well, and Atlas Reactor is having plenty of its own struggles making it to launch (switching from F2P to B2P but lacking players and with free weekends happening so often that they've transitioned back to basically F2P within a year...and the game isn't even out yet).

Given that Rift is still receiving pretty solid support, unlike other games like Devilian and Defiance, it's pretty reasonable to think that even despite the controversies the game has had and the damage that's been done to the game and Trion's reputations, that it's still turning a profit.



Yes it did go up because of Steam, even with it's terrible launch there due to Carbine thinking that they don't need to do a marketing push to support it because "Steam does all the marketing for you".



The soundtrack likely sold pretty well, but I doubt that the store updates or content updates (...I don't even think it had an update this quarter. The most recent one was mid-July which IIRC is after the second quarter ended in June). Steam is always a big bump for games when they launch there, so there's no reason to assume that it wasn't responsible for a large part of the revenue bump the game received this quarter.



Nope, not at all. I quite enjoy the game and now that they've done a ton of work to it it's pretty fucking solid. Not my favorite game around, but it's something that I enjoy and would like to see stick around and continue to receive updates.

But that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of Carbines, quite frankly, pathetic handling of the title. Nor that I must be blind to the grim situation that the game remains in with the game never generating much revenue and seeing major layoffs multiple times.



NCsoft still owns Carbine/WS at the end of the day, and they are not one to keep games that are dragging down revenue around. WildStars greatest strength now is that there aren't any other major Western titles in development, otherwise NCsoft would likely have already pulled the plug to free up resources/market share like what they did to CoH (which was generating around as much revenue as WS generated this quarter, except they were doing that every quarter) before GW2/WS launched.

Trion, on the other hand, has yet to actually shut down a live game. Rift is still seeing pretty steady updates, there is a small scale paid expansion in the works, and the Rift team hasn't suffered major layoffs.

So comparatively, Rift is in a much better place than WS. That's not because one is shit and the other isn't or because I hate one, but that's the reality of their situations.



Except that Rift has already more than paid off its initial development costs (I wouldn't be surprised if WS has barely covered those by now) by now and drove a huge amount of initial growth for Trion. While Wildstar continues to see very lackluster earnings (sadly we can't see Rifts, I'd love to) and never really "grew", it launched and started shrinking pretty much immediately (moving from monthly to quarterly updates, revenue dropping hard within one quarter, multiple rounds of deep layoffs etc.)

Your talking from a pure $$ standpoint

I was also speaking from a player standpoint

In terms of player count, Wildstar is probably in the same range if not higher than RIFT

[Fencers]

You seemed to be missing my point, which is understandable since you refuse to read any sort of criticism. The pack is called " rift essentials " so according to Trion (the creators of this bundle) the majority of what is essential is souls (and the new class)<snip>

To be fair, I do not think the naming of the bundle is meant to be that literal.

Advertisements are designed to entice you &/or communicate an idea, feeling. I don't think Trion meant to communicate that the pack is essential (define: absolutely necessary) to playing Rift. A notion directly contradicted by gameplay, of course, because the bundle is unnecessary to play by demonstration.

[Shadowban]

Maybe it's just me or Trion punt the reasoning of pricing structure change to players again.

Years ago when Rift went F2P, Trion said "we heard you, the majority of people doesn't want to pay a monthly subscription".
I attempted to refund my remaining annual subscription that I purchased just a few months ago and was denied.
But at least they converted me to patron with a good amount of credits.

Now according to the stream, Trion said "WE wanted to see better segments of contents" so they decided to sell us contents again.

I mean what is it?
While I preordered deluxe SP already it feels like Trion is just dumping their "controversial" decisions to their clients again.
So according to Trion literally they are saying "it's all the you guys' fault, you ask for these we just deliver, so shut up and be happy".

As a long term supporter I'd rather Trion just be honest for once and say they needed a little extra cash flow... and not punting the responsibility back to players again every single fucking time they pull shit like this.
Jeez.

But I guess this move changed history for all the f2p mmorpg in the world tho.
Rift will be the first mmo in the world that's f2p with b2p with "patrons/subs" not getting new contents... I mean even in SWTOR (arguably one of the worst and the most restrictive f2p) being a subscriber they grant you 100% of the contents even their new expansions packs that they sell for free.

Trino please be honest. Sometimes people actually feel more inclined to support you if you could just be honest with us.

[Puremallace]

Maybe it's just me or Trion punt the reasoning of pricing structure change to players again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s63bfaKoLjI

^ 30:00min they address this F2P/B2P thing they are doing

[Shadowban]

^ 30:00min they address this F2P/B2P thing they are doing

Yep watched it. They said the players are asking for better refined contents so they listened to OUR concerns and OUR demands and so they are charging us for contents now because WE asked for it. Thanks for the link. kek.

[Edge-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s63bfaKoLjI

^ 30:00min they address this F2P/B2P thing they are doing

Listened to about 10-15 minutes, didn't hear anything too interesting. What happened to Daglar, does he not work there anymore? Because without him the stream is kinda boring. Producer dude is alright and Dead Simon is still himself, but Ocho is not good (I STILL FUCKING MISS ELRAR) and that lady just kinda sat around doing not much.

I did enjoy producer dude explaining the change to the expansion model by basically saying, "We heard you that you didn't like paying for earring slots, so we decided that paying for the whole expansion would be better!" Got a laugh out of that, there were definitely better ways to frame his response.

I don't mind charging for an expansion, but for $40 they don't seem to be providing much at launch (2 dungeons, really?). After getting burned with Heart of Thorns (which I still regret paying $50 for) and especially with the way Trion has been shitting the bed recently I'm holding off on this one still. I do want to play, and if they show off some fantastic stuff down the road may even pick it up for launch. But as it is now, I can't see myself throwing money at them, especially for what they've outlined about the expansion so far.

[Deleted]

The best part was 1 mob per kilometer square in the zone, no quest, no humanoid.... working on it for 18 months.

Seems legit

[Orange Joe]

Listened to about 10-15 minutes, didn't hear anything too interesting. What happened to Daglar, does he not work there anymore? Because without him the stream is kinda boring. Producer dude is alright and Dead Simon is still himself, but Ocho is not good (I STILL FUCKING MISS ELRAR) and that lady just kinda sat around doing not much.

I did enjoy producer dude explaining the change to the expansion model by basically saying, "We heard you that you didn't like paying for earring slots, so we decided that paying for the whole expansion would be better!" Got a laugh out of that, there were definitely better ways to frame his response.

I don't mind charging for an expansion, but for $40 they don't seem to be providing much at launch (2 dungeons, really?). After getting burned with Heart of Thorns (which I still regret paying $50 for) and especially with the way Trion has been shitting the bed recently I'm holding off on this one still. I do want to play, and if they show off some fantastic stuff down the road may even pick it up for launch. But as it is now, I can't see myself throwing money at them, especially for what they've outlined about the expansion so far.

At least they admit they put them behind a paywall unlike a poster here that I won't mention.

[Shadowban]

At least they admit they put them behind a paywall unlike a poster here that I won't mention.

I don't know who that is but he sure sounds like a little bitch tho.


And like I said, from the stream it's amazing that Trion just casually shifting the pricing structural change to it's customers.
It's always "you guys wanted this you guys wanted that, you guys don't like earrings so here we totally listened now you are again required to pay for contents again but we are still going to leave p2w cash shops in this game tho."

So paying $40 for 2 dungeons and 1 single 10 men raid.
LFG and LFR is looking really bad. Maybe they will say "since the last expansion for $40 for 2 dungeons and a 10 men raid was great and you guys all loved it, in expansion patch Rift 4.1 there will be 3 more dungeons for only $30, oh the gear from these 3 dungeons might be better than the pre-Rift 4.1 gears tho.

Then an expansion patch Rift 4.2 will come out with 4 more dungeons for again only $30, and the patch 4.2 gears will be equal or better than all gears obtained prior 4.2. Sounds exactly what we, the customers, asked for.

[StrawberryZebra]

Maybe they will say "since the last expansion for $40 for 2 dungeons and a 10 men raid was great and you guys all loved it, in expansion patch Rift 4.1 there will be 3 more dungeons for only $30, oh the gear from these 3 dungeons might be better than the pre-Rift 4.1 gears tho.

That's one of my biggest concerns with Trions new direction. I can see them wanting to charge us extra for any additional content they add in 4.0, they've been quite happy to try squeeze their customers for anything they can get so its something I could see them trying sooner rather than later.

But moving on to the big question no one seems to be asking....About the loot tables in those two dungeons. With the number we have in NT, they're horrendously cramped because theres just too few bosses for the number of items that need to drop, I don't even want to think how bad its going to be with just two dungeons. I'm still yet to get my hands on the Totek's Will I've been wanting since I hit level 65, I can't imagine the horror of trying to get it from a boss with 10 times the number of drops.

[Eleccybubb]

That's one of my biggest concerns with Trions new direction. I can see them wanting to charge us extra for any additional content they add in 4.0, they've been quite happy to try squeeze their customers for anything they can get so its something I could see them trying sooner rather than later.

But moving on to the big question no one seems to be asking....About the loot tables in those two dungeons. With the number we have in NT, they're horrendously cramped because theres just too few bosses for the number of items that need to drop, I don't even want to think how bad its going to be with just two dungeons. I'm still yet to get my hands on the Totek's Will I've been wanting since I hit level 65, I can't imagine the horror of trying to get it from a boss with 10 times the number of drops.

They do that then I just won't play anymore. If I'm buying Rift this time I want all the content with no shitty scummy paywalls.

[Puremallace]

At least they admit they put them behind a paywall unlike a poster here that I won't mention.

That is a little silly not to take an objective view. Even a huge fanboi can admit some stuff requires the expansion to experience it. Obviously they need to clarify their definition of F2P and how B2P has been integrated. Obviously earring slots were a B2P feature.

Any noob who hit 65 could realize that quite quickly. My THEORY is because Trion figured you could farm Rex in game you could save up enough to purchase the expansion? That is possible right??

The game is long over due for a developer letter or producer one addressing this. The other charge that Trion has shut down every thread pointing this out is pretty ridiculous. They did shut down that other guys thread that was basically a troll to show the game was dying with loosely based statistics with no significance and I took a 5 point mmo-champ infraction calling him out for it.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...d-big-3-a.html

^ 21 Page post on their main general forums going over this issue

They do that then I just won't play anymore. If I'm buying Rift this time I want all the content with no shitty scummy paywalls.

If I am going to give Trion $59.00 for all content associated with Starfall prophecy and content that falls between patch 4.0 and 4.9 then they had better not decide to nickle and dime me for a raid or dungeon in between those patches or we will have issues

[Orange Joe]

That is a little silly not to take an objective view. Even a huge fanboi can admit some stuff requires the expansion to experience it. Obviously they need to clarify their definition of F2P and how B2P has been integrated. Obviously earring slots were a B2P feature.

Any noob who hit 65 could realize that quite quickly. My THEORY is because Trion figured you could farm Rex in game you could save up enough to purchase the expansion? That is possible right??

The game is long over due for a developer letter or producer one addressing this. The other charge that Trion has shut down every thread pointing this out is pretty ridiculous. They did shut down that other guys thread that was basically a troll to show the game was dying with loosely based statistics with no significance and I took a 5 point mmo-champ infraction calling him out for it.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...d-big-3-a.html

^ 21 Page post on their main general forums going over this issue

I never was mad about it so your post is kinda pointless. Was just saying even Trion says they were behind a paywall. Yet a certain someone here will deny it til he dies.

[Puremallace]

I never was mad about it so your post is kinda pointless. Was just saying even Trion says they were behind a paywall. Yet a certain someone here will deny it til he dies.

Well that is literally impossible to do when I link a video with Trion lead devs saying the game is shifting to B2P in 4.0 and had flavors of it accidentally in 3.0 lol

[Jtbrig7390]

Your talking from a pure $$ standpoint

I was also speaking from a player standpoint

In terms of player count, Wildstar is probably in the same range if not higher than RIFT

You can assume that Wildstar is in the same range or higher then rift, but if you got no data to back it up then it doesn't matter. All that matters is $$$$ and how much it makes. Wildstar is putting out less content and making less money then Rift and that is a fact.

Rift was able to stay a p2p MMO for 3 years and Wildstar couldn't do it for 1 year. There is no realm or universe where Wildstar is doing better then rift.

To be clear I like things about both MMO's and both company's are shit. But its a fact that Rift is doing better then WS. Wildstar isn't even making as much money as CoH did before NCsoft pulled the plug.

I would be highly impressed if WS even made its development cost back. It has nothing to do with "hating" on ether way, Its a simple truth that Wildstar isn't doing better then rift.

I find it assuming tho that Rift went from being the Gold Standard of how you do F2p MMO's, To the Gold Standard on how to not do them.

Also Trion are a bunch of fucken idiots if they think they can go from f2p to b2p. Its not going to work and could be the death nail in Rift's coffin. You CAN NOT go from P2p to F2p then to B2p. You will push away a massive amount of your playerbase. Even more so at a high price tag for low content.

The history of Rift is something special. It went from Decent P2p game to really good f2p to meh p2w-f2p and now going to p2w-b2p with lacking content...

[Shadowban]

You can assume that Wildstar is in the same range or higher then rift, but if you got no data to back it up then it doesn't matter. All that matters is $$$$ and how much it makes. Wildstar is putting out less content and making less money then Rift and that is a fact.

Rift was able to stay a p2p MMO for 3 years and Wildstar couldn't do it for 1 year. There is no realm or universe where Wildstar is doing better then rift.

To be clear I like things about both MMO's and both company's are shit. But its a fact that Rift is doing better then WS. Wildstar isn't even making as much money as CoH did before NCsoft pulled the plug.

I would be highly impressed if WS even made its development cost back. It has nothing to do with "hating" on ether way, Its a simple truth that Wildstar isn't doing better then rift.

I find it assuming tho that Rift went from being the Gold Standard of how you do F2p MMO's, To the Gold Standard on how to not do them.

Also Trion are a bunch of fucken idiots if they think they can go from f2p to b2p. Its not going to work and could be the death nail in Rift's coffin. You CAN NOT go from P2p to F2p then to B2p. You will push away a massive amount of your playerbase. Even more so at a high price tag for low content.

The history of Rift is something special. It went from Decent P2p game to really good f2p to meh p2w-f2p and now going to p2w-b2p with lacking content...

I am pretty sure SFP is the tiniest "expansion" ever released in Rift.
If it wasn't for the level bump this is literally just a "content patch" not an expansion.
Trion just stuck that level increase and calls this content patch as "expansion" so they can sell the contents with 100% paywall now.
Props to Trion.

[Slipmat]

You CAN NOT go from P2p to F2p then to B2p.

The term you're looking for is F2P with buyable Expansion, nowhere does it say you will have to pay anything to play Rift if you choose not to buy the new Expansion, you'll still be able to level 1 to 65 totally free.

[Jtbrig7390]

The term you're looking for is F2P with buyable Expansion, nowhere does it say you will have to pay anything to play Rift if you choose not to buy the new Expansion, you'll still be able to level 1 to 65 totally free.

By ur logic WoW is f2p because you can play 1-20 free. Sorry but your blind defending won't change what things mean. Them charging $$$ for expansions makes it a b2p game anything before the endgame (New expansion) can be considered as a free trial just like WoW's 1-20. There is no difference between the two.

Rift charging for expansions makes it B2p because you have to Buy to Play the main part of the game.