Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Vanyali]

Is this still accurate?

Yes

@Vanyali

Could please clarify on two topics I am a bit confused on (probably because of the differences between this guide and Icy Veins' one)?

1) Relics: on the main page you say that ilvl should be always prioritized over trait unless the difference in ilvl is really small? Then you posted about some traits being worth 10 or even 15 ilvls: are we talking about actual relic ilvl or the weapon ilvl?

i.e. I now have a 850 relic with the Demon Bite trait: I could put it over a 835 relic with the Chaos Strike trait and my weapon would gain 4 ilvl but lose a point in a very good trait, or I could put it over a 840 relic with a defensive trait, gaining only 1 weapon ilvl but keeping 2 dps traits. Which one is the best option?

(I would sim it myself but the Simcraft code for Artifact traits is rather obscure to me and I wouldn't know how to)

2) Artifact traits: can you expand on the "up to personal preference" route to go after Anguish of the Deceiver? Is there really no difference in dps in any situation (ST or AoE) by going first after Inner Demons or taking instead Demon rage and Contained Fury? Is ID so strong to be worth spending 4 points in non dps traits instead of having the immediate benefit of the other route?

Thanks a lot for the inputs

Missed this in my main update; it's updated now.

the best bet in that case would be the 850 - Chaos Strike is worth 10 ilvls, so putting the 835 would result in roughly the same damage as if you had an 845 of a lesser trait.

FWIW you can just change the number of points (ie, instead of a +1 in Dbite trait a +1 in the CS trait) to sim it without having to have it, though you'll have to mess with ilvls slightly. Not positive how to do that OTOH in an easy fashion.


For the second, it's a slightly higher gain in ID.. if you trust your tanks and if it's AoE and if you don't play Demonic ever (which you really shouldn't if you're pushing for min-max stuff currently anyway) ID > Contained Fury. If not, Contained Fury helps with pooling, so is still a fairly strong trait.

[neck deep]

wait to me you just said "yes 15 ilvls on the relic but not 15 ilvls on the relic 15 ilvls on the weapon"

A) 840 Relic. +40 ilvl to weapon - Sharpened Glaives

B) 860 Relic. +46 ilvl to weapon - non-dps trait

maybe this is clearer? a or b?

in that scenario b.

in regards to distant army vs hidden satyr. hidden satyr can crit, and can proc on multiple targets off of the same ability. mark of the distant army doesn't seem to be dealing any aoe damage at all right now, and can't crit. until someone actually proves otherwise distant army is actual dogshit and should be treated as such. maybe it's broken, and is intended to deal aoe damage, but i did an entire set of mythic dungeons with it on my neck last week to test, and it never dealt damage worth a fuck at all.

[orgulas]

wait to me you just said "yes 15 ilvls on the relic but not 15 ilvls on the relic 15 ilvls on the weapon"

A) 840 Relic. +40 ilvl to weapon - Sharpened Glaives

B) 860 Relic. +46 ilvl to weapon - non-dps trait

maybe this is clearer? a or b?

For me it is B. Not a sim guy here but +6 item levels on weapon is big. Actually had that yesterday with heroic raid loot, went with huge weapon ilevel boost relic.

Vanyali can answer it with some sim results maybe.

[Nalistar]

Thanks a lot fo your reply

the best bet in that case would be the 850 - Chaos Strike is worth 10 ilvls, so putting the 835 would result in roughly the same damage as if you had an 845 of a lesser trait.

Do you mean putting the 850 over the 840 with a defensive trait since the 835 with Chaos Strike should actually be considered as a 845? (So +1 weapon ilvl with Chaos Strike > +4 weapon ilvl with a defensive trait?)

For the second, it's a slightly higher gain in ID.. if you trust your tanks and if it's AoE and if you don't play Demonic ever (which you really shouldn't if you're pushing for min-max stuff currently anyway) ID > Contained Fury. If not, Contained Fury helps with pooling, so is still a fairly strong trait.

What do you mean "if you trust your tanks"?

And btw would then make any sense going for Demon Rage 3/3 for the immediate dps increase to push progression and then going for ID (postponing Contained Fury)? Because going straight for ID would mean waiting for any dps bonus for quite some more days. Or is Demon Rage not worth it? I'm just asking since I remember you saying ID is not a very strong trait and was wondering if it's worth the wait.
And no, I'm not going Demonic (only for elite WQ).
Thanks again

[Deleted]

I've hit 9694 Crit, 4166 Haste, 1703 Mastery, and 1876 Versatility.

Simming my character now puts Vers over Crit over Haste when using Prep/Chaos Blades. Maybe when the prices fall I'll consider swapping out some crit gems to vers.

[Deleted]

845 Tirathon's Betrayal
845 Memento of Angerboda
850 Hunger of The Pack

Which 2 should I use?

[the boar]

could the changelog be moved to the top of the first post? save our scroll wheels a few turns of life and we can know if something has changed at a quick glance

[Fossilz]

Havoc
Throw Glaive damage reduced by 30%.
Fel Mastery (Talent) damage bonus to Fel Rush reduced to 30%.
Bloodlet (Talent) now deals 100% of initial Throw Glaive damage.
Fury of the Illidari (Artifact Ability) damage reduced by 20%.
Note: See below for for additional PvP tuning adjustments to Fury of the Illidari.
Balanced Blades (Artifact Trait) damage bonus to Blade Dance reduced to 3% per target.
rip

[Ryxxi]

As expected, the artifact talent, a bit of overnerf. We loose single tar dmg too now.

[ujx]

Mage is fine though and barely touch rogues. Typical Blizzard balancing.

[therayeffect]

Holy shit they fucking dumpstered us. Our fucking single target dps got shit on. 20% damage loss probably or higher on single target, GG.

[bloodkraven]

welp. goodbye

I don't like overexageration but that was a fucking brutal romping. How can we even remotely compete now in single target? We have one dps spec it's not like we can just switch to the third fucking one.

[Adoxe]

Well, shit. That's fucking stupid.

[Toffie]

Our single target wasnt that good to begin with, how clueless can developers actually be?

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Only complete idiots balance like this. You don't make large sweeping nerfs like this. Now if it's too much they have to go back and rebuff, and it just pisses off the DH fanbase.

Morons never learn. Honestly glad I quit 2 weeks in, lol. It was fun while it lasted, just destroying Heroic/Mythic dungeons.

[Aeriyo]

Soooo, do we still use Bloodlet orrrr

[Ryxxi]

I play Arms too and they literally did the 10% - 3% for one of the Quality of tactician talents.. Now I don't understand why they don't give us Artifact refunds with changes like this. I Would have used that 1 point else where. AM already close to my 3rd dragon on Havoc.

[orgulas]

Soooo, do we still use Bloodlet orrrr

Question is, do we still have a raiding spot?

[Pigglix]

First lets wait until someone come with the numbers showing us how bad these nerfs are, then we can grab our torches and pitchforks and go to the blizz and rogue/mage foruns.

[Krolja]

Seems like the build won't change either. I was secretly hoping that maybe we could use these nerfes to diversify the build a little. Even with the nerfs I have Bloodlet still simming ~25k higher than Felblade. I'm pretty disappointed. Lord knows Demon Reborn/Unleashed Power are still never going to see the light of day. I really have to wonder what goes on in those offices sometimes.

EDIT: With the nerfs in place I'm simming about 11k dps less than I was last night before the nerfs were dropped.