Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Saucexorzski]

Why take it seriously even then? When did "Billy on the street" become anything other than a joke? All it does is show complete lack of understanding of what polling is.

You seem to think i take Polling seriously. I do not. Polling is about spin.

[Felya]

Ya, they are about as reliable as "polls" conducted by biased sources.

No, they are not. I am sorry, choosing people to get a laugh is not a poll. Was Jimmy Kimmel polling women for his segment on ending suffrage?

[Reeve]

No one was saying, or agreeing with the idea, that it needed to be changed in anyway for a good long while. Unless, you were a filthy Republican that wanted it gone for their nonexistent idea.

Why the sudden change?

No change for me. I've always been a supporter of Single Payer. I also think the ACA is better than what we had before the ACA. Those are consistent positions.

And Clinton was pretty clear about her position with regards to that in the first (?) debate.

[Dextroden]

I am free to have my own thoughts on subjects, as politics, and political beliefs are sometime subjective. And further the people that are Bernie or Bust pretty much make that argument; I am using their own stated reason, and some of the other things they say to make my judgment.

The Democratic party is in no way as splintered as the GOP currently is. There is no comparison.

And everyone else is free. Well, not really. You're deplorable if you voted for Trump.

It's funny. People moan about whataboutism. But good lord if that hasn't been the reason to ignore unrest on the Democrat side.

[Felya]

You seem to think i take Polling seriously. I do not. Polling is about spin.

What made you believe that? You quoted me saying you don't understand polling. I'm not saying you are willfully trying to undermine polling, I'm saying you don't understand it. So, yes, you don't take it seriously... uhm... duh...

[Reeve]

So NPR Politics podcast had an interesting point. While conservatives and evangelicals like to tout themselves as the party of family values, the candidate they're overwhelmingly supporting is anything but family values, having cheated on multiple wives and sexually assaulted large numbers of women.

Meanwhile, the President that they've been actively hating for the last 8 years actually has walked the walk of family values. By all accounts, he has a strong, healthy, loving relationship with Michelle Obama, and they've raise two lovely well adjusted daughters. For people who claim to put so much emphasis on "family values," they seem to make some odd choices.

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And everyone else is free. Well, not really. You're deplorable if you voted for Trump.

It's funny. People moan about whataboutism. But good lord if that hasn't been the reason to ignore unrest on the Democrat side.

Only around half of Trump supporters are deplorables, remember?

[Dextroden]

I do not represent everyone, I can only act as I think is right in a given situation, given the information I have. And for me, pragmatism wins over idealism, provided the idealistic idea is not in reach, and the pragmatic idea gets us closer.

As long as you want to pretend there isn't internal dissent, I'm down for it.

[Deleted]

You seem to think i take Polling seriously. I do not. Polling is about spin.

I agree with you completely. I think polls are complete bullshit. But since the majority in this thread think they are gospel truth, ya gotta love this...

CNN Poll suggests Trump unhurt by recent allegations

This part is particularly intersting:

The polls find Hillary Clinton inches ahead of Donald Trump in North Carolina and Nevada, but continuing to trail the Republican Party's presidential nominee in one of the biggest electoral vote prizes on the map, Ohio.

But in both Ohio and North Carolina, comparisons to CNN/ORC polls in September and late-August respectively suggest the allegations aren't hurting Trump in either of those states, either among likely voters or among the broader pool of registered voters.

LOL!! Nice.

[Skroe]

To be fair, the Republicans have trounced the Democrats in the legislative arena for a while now, and have managed to redistrict in ways that help them maintain that superiority.

The state-level stuff is mostly due to 2010 redistricting, but Republicans are pretty much riding that Gold Ticket into their last two cycles. If it is counting on post-2020 redistricting to be anywhere close to as generous to them as 2010, they're living in a fantasy world.

This is the most insane thing about the Republican Party as it is right now and why it needs to die. You see these ridiculous Trumpists with their alternate universe factoids and beliefs. I've been in this party with them for years, and they're nothing new, but they're the intellectual rot, the incarnation of brain cancer, to the entire conservative movement.

Why do I say that? Because unless a belief, or a policy can withstand a rigorous challenge... unless it is based upon unassailible data points... it's categorically untrue to define it as an optimal solution to some societal problem. An enduring solution must be built to last. That means trying to poke holes in it so that if it is implimented, it will actually last.

What do we see instead? Republicans cherrypicking their sources of data and information to a degree that dwarfs Democrats. Fact denialism about basically everything nowdays. And when challenged, they attack the challenger , or the grounds of the challenge, or the reporting of the challenge. They don't try to answer the challenge with data that the challenger will find difficult to dispute.

It's like they don't actually want to win enduring victories. It's more like they want to look like they're winning, and say that they're winning, but not actually cement a defensible win.

Ironically the best example of this is the campaign of Donald Trump. How so? To become President, you must run a comprehensive ground game. There is a model of campaigning that simply works, regardless of who does it. Donald Trump refused to build such a campaign, which has left him woefully behind in field offices, get out the vote, fund raising and pretty much everything that every campaign president for does. What do Trump supporters do? Rather than use the data of "this stuff is historically essential and works as these data shows, so we need to demand Trump build it so we can win" they contort themselves to justify how Trump can spin the media into being his helper so he can achieve a national presence without such a comprehensive national political operation.

It's utter nonsense! The one thing they have to do to actually win, and they KNOW Trump isn't doing, they are so far gone as to justify him not doing it. It is completely fucking nuts.

If Republicans don't start building enduring strategies to make themselves appealing to win and dynamically respond to the changing demographics and political/economic winds in this country, like Democrats have, they're going to find themselves losing utterly everything over, and over and over again.

The most dangerous thing Democrats have done to Republicans in the past ten years happened at the DNC in August when Hillary opened her party wide open to #NeverTrump Center-Right Republicans. This is how Liberal Hawks and Liberal Internationalists moved into the Republican Party decades ago, when the Democratic Party moved to the left after 1968. Now it's happening in reverse.

[alexw]

No, Skroe. Nobody uses Hitler intelligently. Not when the Bushes were Hitler. Not when Bill was Hitler. Not when Obama was Hitler. And certainly not here. It, and Nazis, are just bludgeon words. No different than calling Hillary a criminal or a lizard person.

Why, oh why, do people feel smart for calling Trump Hitler? Why did they feel smart for calling any politician Hitler?

Go and actually study the background to Hitler's rise to power like some of us have. How he managed it. The methods he used. The timeline of it all. THEN come back and say "Oh I get it now". Because you will only understand if you do that.

[Reeve]

Does this include the poll by Breitbart with the same results?

Does Breitbart even do polling? I mean I know they do internet surveys, but that's not the same thing as a poll.

[Endus]

As long as you want to pretend there isn't internal dissent, I'm down for it.

You're operating from a false premise, to begin with. No political party has the unequivocal support of their entire voting base on all matters. Those voters disagreeing with certain platform elements is not "dissent". Political parties are representative, of broad swaths of the population, they are not meant to be dogma-enforcing demagogues who require blind obedience from their membership, which is the only way your fantasy could exist in fact.

[Dug]

So NPR Politics podcast had an interesting point. While conservatives and evangelicals like to tout themselves as the party of family values, the candidate they're overwhelmingly supporting is anything but family values, having cheated on multiple wives and sexually assaulted large numbers of women.

Meanwhile, the President that they've been actively hating for the last 8 years actually has walked the walk of family values. By all accounts, he has a strong, healthy, loving relationship with Michelle Obama, and they've raise two lovely well adjusted daughters. For people who claim to put so much emphasis on "family values," they seem to make some odd choices.

Well you see Reeve it was never about Obamas lack of family values, oh no we all know the real reason they hate him. That he shattered all their preconceived stereotypes about "his type" just made them even angrier.

[Dextroden]

So NPR Politics podcast had an interesting point. While conservatives and evangelicals like to tout themselves as the party of family values, the candidate they're overwhelmingly supporting is anything but family values, having cheated on multiple wives and sexually assaulted large numbers of women.

Meanwhile, the President that they've been actively hating for the last 8 years actually has walked the walk of family values. By all accounts, he has a strong, healthy, loving relationship with Michelle Obama, and they've raise two lovely well adjusted daughters. For people who claim to put so much emphasis on "family values," they seem to make some odd choices.

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Only around half of Trump supporters are deplorables, remember?

I'm sure she actually thinks only half are not trash for backing Trump. That thing about giving a shit about half of them is a lie. Just as it would be coming out of Trump's mouth.

[Felya]

I agree with you completely. I think polls are complete bullshit. But since the majority in this thread think they are gospel truth, ya gotta love this...

CNN Poll suggests Trump unhurt by recent allegations

This part is particularly intersting:

LOL!! Nice.

No shit... as Trump him self said, his support doesn't care about anything, but supporting Trump. As he said, he can walk down the street and shoot someone, with his support not wavering at all. I don't see how proving Trump right, in him pretty much calling his support blind sheep, is helping...

[AndaliteBandit]

Trump vows to unite America under "one God"

Freedom of religion means freedom of the Right religion.

[Cyberowl]

Ya, they are about as reliable as "polls" conducted by biased sources.

Glad you agree all the online polls are BS.

Don't you want to save your breath for election day? You gonna need it for the big final "MSM!" "Riggers!" tantrum.

[Traveler Voltin]

even if trump won he would probably get kick out of office anyway. which would probably make pence president, i think.

[Dextroden]

You're operating from a false premise, to begin with. No political party has the unequivocal support of their entire voting base on all matters. Those voters disagreeing with certain platform elements is not "dissent". Political parties are representative, of broad swaths of the population, they are not meant to be dogma-enforcing demagogues who require blind obedience from their membership, which is the only way your fantasy could exist in fact.

And the Splinter groups are representive of the fact both parties are looking at opposition from within.

[Reeve]

I agree with you completely. I think polls are complete bullshit. But since the majority in this thread think they are gospel truth, ya gotta love this...

CNN Poll suggests Trump unhurt by recent allegations

This part is particularly intersting:



LOL!! Nice.

Those of us that think polling represents an actual scientific model of reality also don't think that a single poll represents the totality of that reality. That's why we have polling aggregates, like so:



Even if any of those polls are wrong, in aggregate, they show a clear trend in favor of Clinton right now.

This is part of why Trump's allegations of voter fraud are particularly awful, because it's pretty clear from the polling that he's way the fuck behind, yet when he loses, he's going to claim it's because the election was rigged.