Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Benggaul]

If you have an extreme emotional response to something, try to pull yourself back into rationality, and work to recognize when the media you consume is working to subvert your abilities to use reason.

First of all, I'll thank you not to presume who I am, how I learn or what I think. I have a contempt for Donald Trump that does not spring from the past 2 years of "media treatment", but rather an independent knowledge of his behavior that spans decades of awful comments and deeds. It isn't irrational; it is based on fact. I am not some fresh-faced youth learning the intricacies of politics for the first time. I also don't rely on the media (or Reddit/Wikipedia/Wikileaks/whatever) to supply any and all information I need on any topic. Trump was around long before the elections and long before his ridiculous reality show--being a nasty little shit as always--and if anything has even LESS business being in any form of leadership capacity now than he did in the 80's.

I've also had enough of your constant condescension. I've tried to have a civil conversation with you, but you've demonstrated you have no real interest in it apart from particularly lame attempts at verbally patting me on the head and rolling your eyes. That ends now. Have a nice life, if at all possible.

[May90]

I know conspiracy theories are fun and all, but darn, "Hillary will start a nuclear war" takes the cake.

[Breccia]

I know conspiracy theories are fun and all, but darn, "Hillary will start a nuclear war" takes the cake.

Stein wants attention. She's been nearly completely ignored, and based on what Trump's been saying, figured this was the only way to get in the news.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

While I admire Jill Stein and her take on things in general, she has ZERO chance of becoming the President this term. This is mainly because of the unfair treatment candidates that aren't either "Republican" or "Democrat" receive in terms of media attention (isn't that kind of why Bernie "joined" the Democratic party very shortly prior to running?).

Given that some of the media appearances she has had have featured her being unable to articulate how exactly she would even be able to enact any of her policies and indulging a 9/11 truther, I don't really think lack of media exposure is what precludes her from having a chance of being elected.

At this point, if we're being honest, a vote for a third party is not necessarily a vote for their candidate. I am debating voting Libertarian, even though Gary Johnson is a rather poor candidate. But he has no chance of winning, so its a moot point on who the candidate is. At this point its about finding some way to pry open the vice-grip the two-party system has on the electoral process, because look where that's gotten us. What the third parties should be doing is making concerted efforts in some states. Once they start sneaking off with electoral votes we there is a much better chance of actually giving other parties a national voice. That's not going to happen on a national effort.

A vote for a third party can easily be cast as "I'm fed up with both of you, and its time to start looking at other options" rather than an endorsement for that party's candidate, given that said candidate will not be president one way or the other.

That or I'll just write in Eisenhower again.

[JohnBrown1917]

If you have an extreme emotional response to something, try to pull yourself back into rationality, and work to recognize when the media you consume is working to subvert your abilities to use reason.

I'm Dutch and far left by American standards, you can see why people can have plenty of reasons to disagree with him.


But not being American does give me the benefit of finding entertainment in either outcome in the elections.

[Liftbrul]

I know conspiracy theories are fun and all, but darn, "Hillary will start a nuclear war" takes the cake.

The fact that the threat of nuclear war is part of current political discourse regardless of who you support is absolutely absurd.

[unbound]

You should read these forums, the amount of bullshit they excuse would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

Wait a minute, are you implying that Clinton supporters are uncritical supporters, but that Trump supporters are highly critical?

lolololol

There are plenty of both on these forums, but to Benggaul's point, I know plenty of people IRL and on serious political discussion boards who are very critical of Clinton and Obama, but I don't know any Republican supporters (and I have to deal with a lot due to family connections) that have ever been even slightly critical of their own party's BS.

[zenkai]

Hey this is about Donald Trump, but since we're suppose to but everything in one megathread, here we go. #moderator logic

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...an-office.html

Vandals toss bricks through window of Indiana county Republican office.

[Shadowferal]

I can only hope that after this election you will allow yourself to grow your ideological viewpoint. I used to think the way you do, I even got involved in the political process and actively worked towards the election of Barack Obama. Then, while I was living in New York, I witnessed first hand the rise of the Occupy Wall Street movement, and then I watched as it was crushed by state violence. I realized that Obama completely sold out to wall street as soon as he got the nomination for the Democratic party, and that he had betrayed all those people who had believed in the propaganda of 'hope and change'.

*nods*

Obama admin helped coordinate the crackdown on the Occupy Movement. (They had a momentum that scared Wall Street...because the movement was a legit game-changer)

We don't even have a Hobson's choice; we can't simply take it or take nothing.

And this is why I am still so tempted to vote Trump, even now. USA 2.0 will come around a lot faster than with Clinton who will likely continue her pay-to-play policies and do absolutely nothing for anyone less than the 1 percenters.

[zenkai]

Wait a minute, are you implying that Clinton supporters are uncritical supporters, but that Trump supporters are highly critical?

lolololol

There are plenty of both on these forums, but to Benggaul's point, I know plenty of people IRL and on serious political discussion boards who are very critical of Clinton and Obama, but I don't know any Republican supporters (and I have to deal with a lot due to family connections) that have ever been even slightly critical of their own party's BS.

Actually if you didn't have trouble reading you would see that I never said that about Trump supporters, I said "both" *pats you on the head* it's OK.

[NED funded]

Appears to be some free money on PredictIt, for those so inclined.

[DeadmanWalking]

*nods*

Obama admin helped coordinate the crackdown on the Occupy Movement. (They had a momentum that scared Wall Street...because the movement was a legit game-changer)

We don't even have a Hobson's choice; we can't simply take it or take nothing.

And this is why I am still so tempted to vote Trump, even now. USA 2.0 will come around a lot faster than with Clinton who will likely continue her pay-to-play policies and do absolutely nothing for anyone less than the 1 percenters.

Show me some proof that Obama cracked down on the occupy Movement. The Occupy movement died off because that is what typically happens to unorganized movements, which also makes it impossible to crack down on them as they are grass roots organizations with no defined leadership. If people were interested in continuing the occupy movement there would be nothing that could stop them because they don't have an organization structure, even if one person decided to quit doing it then more could just step in and carry on. It died because people lost interest in it because they had real life shit to do.

[Benggaul]

A vote for a third party can easily be cast as "I'm fed up with both of you, and its time to start looking at other options" rather than an endorsement for that party's candidate, given that said candidate will not be president one way or the other.

Which is fine, except that the ones you're "fed up with" most likely either could not care less, or just won't notice. If enough people voted that way? Sure, it might cause some ripples, but I doubt ultimately that anything positive would come of it. I also don't think we can realistically expect enough of a turnout for a protest vote to be effective unless, like I stated before and you allude to here, we can break out of the "Red/Blue" mindset that most of the country is embroiled in. It came rather close back when Perot ran as an independent, but never really since then. Sure, neither Stein nor Johnson are exactly perfect candidates either, but they could be the Golden Child of Presidential Candidacy and they'd still probably be relative unknowns thanks to the current state of political coverage. It took a billionaire, fast-talking nutjob to even get people to turn their heads back in the 90's. It shouldn't have to be that difficult to get people to consider other options when the two they're already considering they KNOW aren't great...but it is.

It has become pretty clear that politics has become just another sport in the States and, like in most sports, people get awfully enraged when their team isn't winning. The teams are defined as "Red" and "Blue" and when one wins then it's all wailing and gnashing of teeth for the other. I think in this election more than any other in recent memory there have been SO many people voting against their own best interests purely in the name of voting for the candidate "their side" has put forward no matter the cost. It needs to stop, but I don't see any realistic way that it will short of another revolution--which I'm not advocating, but I do see the potential for it if the government in general continues to ignore the people for much longer.

[Shadowferal]

Show me some proof that Obama cracked down on the occupy Movement.

Seriously?
Wow, ok...*boggles*
Damn this was old news...
Occupy Moevement was a nightmare for Obama

FOIA Revelations Show Obama Admin Role in Crackdown

Crushing the Occupy Movement - How Wall Street Used Government Forces to Suppress Political Dissent

It has been over two years since the Occupy Movement was brutally destroyed by a coordinated national effort led by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. Since that time, much documentation has been released under the Freedom of Information Act. Even though they are heavily redacted, these documents provide a frightening window into how far corporate America along with the federal, state, and local governments acting as their agents were willing to go to destroy a populist social movement like Occupy.
Despite all the documentation we have, there are still many out there who are in denial about these facts.

Bolded was my own addition. It's surprising how much people absolutely refuse to believe how wrong this admin has been regarding civil rights. It was actually better under the former Bush Admin...though I admit that was damned difficult to believe...

To fabricate a belief that things are going to somehow get better under either of these pieces of waste called Clinton and Trump, makes me want to go back to my childhood when I believed in going to church and praying.

[Venant]

*nods*

Obama admin helped coordinate the crackdown on the Occupy Movement. (They had a momentum that scared Wall Street...because the movement was a legit game-changer)

We don't even have a Hobson's choice; we can't simply take it or take nothing.

And this is why I am still so tempted to vote Trump, even now. USA 2.0 will come around a lot faster than with Clinton who will likely continue her pay-to-play policies and do absolutely nothing for anyone less than the 1 percenters.

My biggest problem is that so many people are stuck in a mass hallucination at this point where they believe Trump is literally the second coming of Hitler. When you hear people saying that literally nothing can convince them that Trump is not evil, you realize that a great number of people have actually surrendered their free will to irrationality. I don't see a difference between many people who hold these irrational viewpoints and religious zealots.

If you vote for either candidate, I hope you do it because you made a rational decision based upon which set of policies you prefer, instead of an irrational decision based upon an outside actor programming you to believe insane ideas like 'everyone voting for Trump is a racist'.

[DeadmanWalking]

My biggest problem is that so many people are stuck in a mass hallucination at this point where they believe Trump is literally the second coming of Hitler. When you hear people saying that literally nothing can convince them that Trump is not evil, you realize that a great number of people have actually surrendered their free will to irrationality. I don't see a difference between many people who hold these irrational viewpoints and religious zealots.

If you vote for either candidate, I hope you do it because you made a rational decision based upon which set of policies you prefer, instead of an irrational decision based upon an outside actor programming you to believe insane ideas like 'everyone voting for Trump is a racist'.

Or we just don't want him to be president based on his history and behavior of being unpresidential and ill equipped for the job. But that doesn't fit your political narrative so it can't possibly be true.

[Breccia]

On twitter

He claims he was hacked. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. It's only fair.

[Venant]

Trump doesn't have croney loyalists under him? What part of dictator strongman makes you think he doesn't have them now or won't ever have them? You are completely rediculous if you think Trump won't design the entire system to prop himself up. There isn't a single thing Trump does that doesn't involve enriching himself even if it is by hook or crook.

As far as media being beholden to her you are going to have to have some proof of this beyond your conspiracy theories. It is entirely possible that people in media see the two and decided that Trump was a complete disaster and work of their own accord to bring him down without having to sign a contract with Hillary. It is human nature to take ones political opinions and present them in what ever they do just like you do with your trumpite posts. Until you have actually proof that Hillary controls the media you can talk as much shit as you want but I am not required to believe a word that spews from your orifice.

I am not supporting Hillary, I would much rather someone else was elected but that someone can't be Donald Trump. He lost me the second he was so thin skinned that he had to allude to the size of his tiny cock on national television during a republican debate, showing me that he had no control over himself and no class or dignity. Such a person should never speak in front of a nation of children nor present himself as the candidate of a party that has long held the narrative that they were the moral majority. The only people he fully represents are the racist/mysoginist/troll culture of the Alt-Wrong. I would rather have Hillary Clinton at the helm for 4 years than put Donald Trump in charge of this nation for 4 hours. Any other Republican candidate with a half decent bone in their body would of wiped the floor with her but Donald is losing her because he can't control his own behavior, he has been a wart on the ass of society for 50 years and somehow think he is entitled to running a nation that he doesn't understand for a party whom he has never been a member of in deed or mentality.

I'm sorry but you are suffering from a severe hallucination in which you believe in an extreme caricature of Donald Trump, as well as other completely insane ideas like 'The only people he fully represents are racists/misogynists/trolls.' You are unable to realize that you are stuck in a hallucination because of a constant stream of confirmation bias that you are likely being fed through the media.

If you are voting against Donald Trump, more power to you, so long as you are doing it because you disagree with his actual policies, and you are voting for somebody who's policies you agree with. If you are voting against Trump because you believe he is literally Hitler, then you have been robbed of your free will and your ability to make a rational choice, much the same way somebody indoctrinated into a religious cult.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Which is fine, except that the ones you're "fed up with" most likely either could not care less, or just won't notice. If enough people voted that way? Sure, it might cause some ripples, but I doubt ultimately that anything positive would come of it. I also don't think we can realistically expect enough of a turnout for a protest vote to be effective unless, like I stated before and you allude to here, we can break out of the "Red/Blue" mindset that most of the country is embroiled in.

I think Wallace was the last time a third party took electoral votes in '68. He was a good example of what I think could work (though I freely agree with you that its not likely, and also, ugh, Wallace). He was a regional candidate who had no chance of winning the general election but was hoping that him winning electoral votes could put him in play as a power broker.
As close as the last few elections have been, a regional candidate threatening to walk off with even a handful of electoral votes would be a serious threat to either party, and that I think would be the best chance of forcing a broader discussion and opening up options.

That or abolishing the electoral college, because hey, a guy can dream.

Sure, neither Stein nor Johnson are exactly perfect candidates either, but they could be the Golden Child of Presidential Candidacy and they'd still probably be relative unknowns thanks to the current state of political coverage.

True, I only meant that this wasn't the only reason Stein wasn't going to win. I didn't mean to imply that this isn't a legitimate issue, so sorry if I gave that impression.

It has become pretty clear that politics has become just another sport in the States and, like in most sports, people get awfully enraged when their team isn't winning. The teams are defined as "Red" and "Blue" and when one wins then it's all wailing and gnashing of teeth for the other. I think in this election more than any other in recent memory there have been SO many people voting against their own best interests purely in the name of voting for the candidate "their side" has put forward no matter the cost. It needs to stop, but I don't see any realistic way that it will short of another revolution--which I'm not advocating, but I do see the potential for it if the government in general continues to ignore the people for much longer.

I disagree with none of this.

[DeadmanWalking]

Seriously?
Wow, ok...*boggles*
Damn this was old news...
Occupy Moevement was a nightmare for Obama

FOIA Revelations Show Obama Admin Role in Crackdown

Crushing the Occupy Movement - How Wall Street Used Government Forces to Suppress Political Dissent

It has been over two years since the Occupy Movement was brutally destroyed by a coordinated national effort led by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. Since that time, much documentation has been released under the Freedom of Information Act. Even though they are heavily redacted, these documents provide a frightening window into how far corporate America along with the federal, state, and local governments acting as their agents were willing to go to destroy a populist social movement like Occupy.
Despite all the documentation we have, there are still many out there who are in denial about these facts.

Bolded was my own addition. It's surprising how much people absolutely refuse to believe how wrong this admin has been regarding civil rights. It was actually better under the former Bush Admin...though I admit that was damned difficult to believe...

To fabricate a belief that things are going to somehow get better under either of these pieces of waste called Clinton and Trump, makes me want to go back to my childhood when I believed in going to church and praying.

As I stated show me evidence that Obama cracked down on them because, as previously stated, the govt can't stop true grass roots organizations because they don't have a power structure and anyone can be a leader. You cut off one head and three more pop up. There are only two ways a grass roots organization dies, 1. Its members largely loose interest in the message. 2. It never really existed and was created to serve a single goal in history and then out lived its usefulness.