Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Lenonis]

Being against same sex marriage doesn't make you a homophobe it just means you think marriage should be between man and woman. So you dont have to hate or fear homosexuals to not agree with them getting married.

Bzzzzzzzzt. Incorrect on many levels.

First of all the religious stance is based on holy matrimony which is the religious ceremony, not on marriage with is the government sponsored legal union.

Second, denying legal rights to gay people when it doesn't affect you in any way shape or form is homophobic.

It may not be fear or hatred based, but I'm used the commonly accepted form of homophobic -- so let's not get pedantic about what the roots of the word mean.

You have people actively trying to deny other people they don't know legal rights when there is no personal impact to them one way or the other -- there is no way that isn't a "deplorable" stance to hold.

[Dug]

People read "phobic" and picture a person shaking in their boots at the mere thought/sight of the thing they "fear".

[Lenonis]

Do you know what homophobic means?

If your only argument is the pedantic meaning of a word then you don't have much of a case.

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Republicans aren't nearly as monolithic on individual issues as you seem to think.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us...ghts.html?_r=0

Did you even read the headline of that article?

"Donald Trump’s More Accepting Views on Gay Issues Set Him Apart in G.O.P."

EDIT -- it's also a bunch of BS. He said he'd over turn gay marriage. He will nominate very conservative justices to SCOTUS. He picked Mike Pence as his running mate. He may not engage in the nasty rhetoric but he's no friend to the gay community.

[Dug]

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
ˌhōməˈfōbēə/Submit
noun
dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

So you don't dislike them nor habor any prejudice against them... but you don't want to allow them to get married... because?

[Eviscero]

People read "phobic" and picture a person shaking in their boots at the mere thought/sight of the thing they "fear".

Hydrophobic materials are frightened of water, didn't you know...

[phitness]

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
ˌhōməˈfōbēə/Submit
noun
dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

So you don't dislike them nor habor any prejudice against them... but you don't want to allow them to get married... because?

I'd venture to say that most people against it is because of their religious beliefs as people who dont believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster dont really give a fuck.

[Lenonis]

I've noticed this trend when people try to defend the right wing on gay rights issues they fall back on attacking the term "homophobic".

Because apparently it needs to be explained that terms can be used in looser ways than their original greek root term meanings.

It's like when people call the muslim ban racist. Yes, a religion isn't a race, but everyone KNOWS what is meant by that. Everyone KNOWS what is meant when a stance is called homophobic even if it's not an actual fear.

Seems to me like it's a sign of a group of people that can't really argue the point. I don't really know why people are reluctant to admit the GOP is an anti-gay party -- it's in their platform, their elected officials are very open about it. It's not a secret nor is it something that is hard to spot.

Not everyone in the GOP is anti-gay though -- as I linked earlier 30% of the party does support gay marriage. You have log cabin republicans and such. So you can definitely make the case that it's not a 100% held view, but the party as a whole...in otherwords a majority (which was my original phrasing) is anti-gay.

Really don't know why people are trying to defend it. I mean the party's officials don't even defend it. *Shrug*

[Mafic]

Part of me, the suspicious part, thinks Hillary's "health issues" are a deception intended to A) help her generate sympathy and B) give her a seemingly triumphant outcome when she miraculously pulls through... showing that she can overcome difficult ordeals.

The problem is she has shown symptoms of poor mobility and motor skills for the last six months. No way Clinton has had "pneumonia" for the last six months. Whatever Clinton has at the moment that is bringing her health down only makes pneumonia that much easier to contract given her probably already weakened immune system.

[Dug]

I'd venture to say that most people against it is because of their religious beliefs as people who dont believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster dont really give a fuck.

But the religious beliefs are rooted in a fear of homosexuality. That it's abnormal and sinful. Fear of God and all that. Homophobia.

And then there's just being apathetic about it either way, thinking its a minor issue that doesn't need to be a priority etc. Hell I've got a couple of gay friends that care not one shit about their right to get married but they're the types that claim they'll never get married so this issue doesn't apply to them. But then you have people that "just feel" that same sexes shouldn't marry, and I ask them "why?" Just because isn't an answer.

[phitness]

I've noticed this trend when people try to defend the right wing on gay rights issues they fall back on attacking the term "homophobic".

Because apparently it needs to be explained that terms can be used in looser ways than their original greek root term meanings.

It's like when people call the muslim ban racist. Yes, a religion isn't a race, but everyone KNOWS what is meant by that. Everyone KNOWS what is meant when a stance is called homophobic even if it's not an actual fear.

Seems to me like it's a sign of a group of people that can't really argue the point. I don't really know why people are reluctant to admit the GOP is an anti-gay party -- it's in their platform, their elected officials are very open about it. It's not a secret nor is it something that is hard to spot.

Not everyone in the GOP is anti-gay though -- as I linked earlier 30% of the party does support gay marriage. You have log cabin republicans and such. So you can definitely make the case that it's not a 100% held view, but the party as a whole...in otherwords a majority (which was my original phrasing) is anti-gay.

Really don't know why people are trying to defend it. I mean the party's officials don't even defend it. *Shrug*

Not defending anything but dont go throwing around homophobe and racist to suit your needs. Using those words the way you are makes them lose their real meaning and trivializes them.

[Merkava]

Let's compare Paris to Trump... Their work in public sector is the same. Their education is very similar.

What? Paris Hilton is a high school dropout. Trump has a degree in economics from Wharton. On what planet are those two things "very similar?"

[DocSavageFan]

If your only argument is the pedantic meaning of a word then you don't have much of a case.

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Did you even read the headline of that article?

"Donald Trump’s More Accepting Views on Gay Issues Set Him Apart in G.O.P."

You apparently didn't understand my point.

[/B]EDIT -- it's also a bunch of BS. He said he'd over turn gay marriage. He will nominate very conservative justices to SCOTUS. He picked Mike Pence as his running mate. He may not engage in the nasty rhetoric but he's no friend to the gay community when it became politically expedient for her to do so.

And Hillary is a friend? She's been against gay marriage for her entire political career up until just a couple years ago.

[Lenonis]

Not defending anything but dont go throwing around homophobe and racist to suit your needs. Using those words the way you are makes them lose their real meaning and trivializes them.

Oh, using racist in my example is the wrong word. But I maintain my use of homophobic is perfectly acceptable.

Or, do you think the stance of "I want to strip legal rights from gay people and keep them as second class citizens" isn't a homophobic stance?

[Mafic]

But the religious beliefs are rooted in a fear of homosexuality. That it's abnormal and sinful. Fear of God and all that. Homophobia.

And then there's just being apathetic about it either way, thinking its a minor issue that doesn't need to be a priority etc. Hell I've got a couple of gay friends that care not one shit about their right to get married but they're the types that claim they'll never get married so this issue doesn't apply to them. But then you have people that "just feel" that same sexes shouldn't marry, and I ask them "why?" Just because isn't an answer.

It is a lot more complicated than that as culture and religion is deeply tied to biological roots. That is why there are billions of humans on the planet and we multiply like rabbits, so homophobia is a phenomena that transcends the explanation of "just religion" indoctrinating fear. Homosexuality is higher in other animals species compared to humans, but I will save that for another post.

[Dug]

Not defending anything but dont go throwing around homophobe and racist to suit your needs. Using those words the way you are makes them lose their real meaning and trivializes them.

Not caring about the issue isn't the same as being "against" it. If you're against same sex marriage then yes you do fall in line with the general meaning of homophobia.

[Hammerfest]

I'm gonna call her "Ill-ary" from now on instead of "Hillary."

[Deleted]

Oh? Do explain how denying legal rights to gay people when it doesn't affect you personally in any way is anything other than an anti-gay stance?

You know that there are gay people against equal marriage yes?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22758434

[Hammerfest]

The problem is she has shown symptoms of poor mobility and motor skills for the last six months.

So? It could be a longer-term deception.

[Lenonis]

You apparently didn't understand my point.

I think we're arguing two different points. I'm talking about Trump's supporters and the GOP/Conservatives in general. Not Trump himself. So your link actually supported my point.

And Hillary is a friend? She's been against gay marriage for her entire political career up until just a couple years ago.

If you had to pick between someone you should shoot you in the face today or someone who you have shot you in the face ten years ago but thinks your fine now, which would you pick?

The entire gay rights movement has shifted in blindly fast fashion -- so it's no surprise that people are changing their stances.

Besides, when you compare the GOP platform to the Dem platform on gay rights it really is a no brainer regardless of the candidates themselves. It doesn't make much sense to assume a candidate of a party is going to run contrary to their party's platform.

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You know that there are gay people against equal marriage yes?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22758434

Gay people can be homophobic. Not sure what you are trying to prove here. Unless you really think some oddball distraction is going to disprove anything I've stated.

[Eviscero]

You know that there are gay people against equal marriage yes?
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22758434

Super dumb argument. People kill themselves, some Mexicans will vote for Trump, and a lot of people like Dominos. Even if people are inherently self-interested, it would seem many lack the self-awareness to act as such.