Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Merkava]

All of it. Especially this part.



/shudder

Shudder? WTF is there to shudder about? A mentally handicapped black man was executed. Why should it matter how exactly, how he became mentally handicapped?

[Wells]

Shudder? WTF is there to shudder about? A mentally handicapped black man was executed. Why should it matter how exactly, how he became mentally handicapped?

"irregardless" is generally regarded as not being an actual word.

[Merkava]

"irregardless" is generally regarded as not being an actual word.

Ah ok, Well that's me told. Thanks for the heads up. I use it lot, actually.

I guess that means that Batman, in the face of being pressed to make his case, instead relegated himself to Grammar Nazi status. That doesn't seem all that surprising.

[Sury]

Irregardless of the circumstances that led to his lobotomization, he was, indeed not fit to understand the punishment facing him.

Obviously this was not a reply to me but I felt the need to give my position on this detail since we are discussing it.

The punishment fit the crime according to the judicial process in that state. I have no problem whatsoever that he was put to death by lethal injection even in his post suicidal mental state. He gave no regard for the lives of his fellow citizens. His sentence was carried out appropriately.

[Merkava]

Obviously this was not a reply to me but I felt the need to give my position on this detail since we are discussing it.

The punishment fit the crime according to the judicial process in that state. I have no problem whatsoever that he was put to death by lethal injection even in his post suicidal mental state. He gave no regard for the lives of his fellow citizens. His sentence was carried out appropriately.

No, the defendant has to be competent to stand trial. The "punishment fitting the crime" has no bearing on anything.

[Sury]

It doesn't matter that he caused his own handicap, what matters it whether or not he understood his sentence.

He "made the trip," so he could get elected. Of course. No one's debating that. My point is that the execution would have been carried out without his presence. The news of the previous day is what prompted his trip home.

I covered my lack of empathy for the man. Justice was served in my book.

From what I have read and watched he made the plans for the trip more than 24 hours prior to the event. His reason for going was to counter the Dukakis quote. The scandal has no relevance to the trip other than being a coincidence time wise.

You don't have to buy what anyone is selling. If you don't believe it, then you don't believe it. That doesn't change any of the facts of the case.

It is just as easy to say the facts do not fit the case you are making.

[Merkava]

I covered my lack of empathy for the man. Justice was served in my book.

From what I have read and watched he made the plans for the trip more than 24 hours prior to the event. His reason for going was to counter the Dukakis quote. The scandal has no relevance to the trip other than being a coincidence time wise.



It is just as easy to say the facts do not fit the case you are making.

1. Your own personal lack of empathy has no bearing on the legal standard.

2. What evidence do you have that he was planning on going back to Arkansas two days previously?

3. That is just as easy say. But if you say that, then you have to make your case to support that.

[Sury]

No, the defendant has to be competent to stand trial. The "punishment fitting the crime" has no bearing on anything.

Clearly the state of Arkansas felt the defendant was competent enough to stand trial. Unless you are saying there are other reason (racial) he was seen fit.

- - - Updated - - -

1. Your own personal lack of empathy has no bearing on the legal standard.

2. What evidence do you have that he was planning on going back to Arkansas two days previously?

3. That is just as easy say. But if you say that, then you have to make your case to support that.

1. covered that

2. the Dukakis quote happened prior to that timeline

3. it is well accepted the Dukakis quote is the reason for his trip and what likely won him the primary

[Merkava]

Clearly the state of Arkansas felt the defendant was competent enough to stand trial. Unless you are saying there are other reason (racial) he was seen fit.

So what? As the DaliyKos put it,

The best lawyers, the best arguments, were before Bill Clinton when he decided whether or not to snuff Ricky Ray Rector. But the best argument to the lawyer Bill Clinton was that if he snuffed this man he would prove himself tough not only on crime, but on blacks.

So he killed him.

Edit -

2. That's not evidence. That's wild speculation. Evidence would be a quote from Clinton earlier in the week in question referencing a trip back to Arkansas.

3. All your repeated reference to Dukakis shows is that Clinton did it for political reasons. Well, that's exactly what my point has been all along.

[Sury]

So what? As the DaliyKos put it,

Edit -

2. That's not evidence. That's wild speculation. Evidence would be a quote from Clinton earlier in the week in question referencing a trip back to Arkansas.

3. All your repeated reference to Dukakis shows is that Clinton did it for political reasons. Well, that's exactly what my point has been all along.

1. It is not up to you or I to decide if the man was fit. It was the states.

2. Well, no, it is a matter of public and political record about that primary.

3. It absolutely was political. It just did not have anything to do with a sex scandal.

[Merkava]

1. It is not up to you or I to decide if the man was fit. It was the states.

2. Well, no, it is a matter of public and political record about that primary.

3. It absolutely was political. It just did not have anything to do with a sex scandal.

1. And the state got it wrong. The USSC rectified that, 10 years later. Clinton had a chance to make the right decision and chose politics over the life of a mentally handicapped black man.

2. Show me any evidence that Clinton was planning to go back to Arkansas before the Flowers story broke. Any at all.

3. The fact that there's no evidence at all that Clinton was planning to return to Arkansas before the Flowers story broke shows that it was about a sex scandal.

[Sury]

1. And the state got it wrong. The USSC rectified that, 10 years later. Clinton had a chance to make the right decision and chose politics over the life of a mentally handicapped black man.

2. Show me any evidence that Clinton was planning to go back to Arkansas before the Flowers story broke. Any at all.

3. The fact that there's no evidence at all that Clinton was planning to return to Arkansas before the Flowers story broke shows that it was about a sex scandal.

Look, if you think what is happening here is me (who is neither a Democrat or a liberal) trying to defend Bill's less than savory political advances, you are mistaken. I just think if you want to criticize the man at least nail him on what is well established. Even in the wiki you linked earlier it states pretty clearly:

By 1992, Bill Clinton was insisting that Democrats "should no longer feel guilty about protecting the innocent" and voiced strong support of capital punishment. To make his point, he flew home to Arkansas mid-campaign to affirm that the execution would continue as scheduled. Some pundits considered it a turning point in that race, hardening a soft public image. Others tend to cite the execution as an example of what they perceive to be Clinton's opportunism, directly influenced by Michael Dukakis and his response to CNN's Bernard Shaw when asked during a campaign debate on October 13, 1988, if he would support the death penalty if Dukakis' wife Kitty were raped and murdered. Dukakis responded that he would not.

CNN also did a documentaries earlier in the year which included that presidential primary. It covered this very topic and they agreed with the assertion that the Dukakis quote is why he made that trip. They also conclude it is likely why he won that campaign, or more accurately why Dukakis lost.

All you have brought to this discussion is that a tabloid story was released the day before the scheduled execution. It was in the middle of a campaign season. It would have needed to be scheduled long in advance. The timing is nothing more than a coincidence.

I am not going to get caught up in the emotions of a mentally ill murderer facing the death penalty who caused his own mental illness. His actions put him there regardless of how it turned out. I certainly am not going to come to an unlikely conclusion from circumstantial evidence when more likely well establish evidence exists.


-edit


In the spirit of bringing this topic back on subject, Hillary has had a better week with Republican representatives than Donald has. While he is backing away from supporting two top Republicans she keeps bringing in the endorsements.

[Merkava]

Look, if you think what is happening here is me (who is neither a Democrat or a liberal) trying to defend Bill's less than savory political advances, you are mistaken. I just think if you want to criticize the man at least nail him on what is well established. Even in the wiki you linked earlier it states pretty clearly:

The link is meaningless. There's no citiation. It's speculation after the fact. If you're trying to use that as proof that Clinton was planning to return to Arkansas to oversee the execution before the story broke, then it fails miserably.

CNN also did a documentaries earlier in the year which included that presidential primary. It covered this very topic and they agreed with the assertion that the Dukakis quote is why he made that trip. They also conclude it is likely why he won that campaign, or more accurately why Dukakis lost.

Have a link to support that?

All you have brought to this discussion is that a tabloid story was released the day before the scheduled execution. It was in the middle of a campaign season. It would have needed to be scheduled long in advance. The timing is nothing more than a coincidence.

It doesn't matter that it was a tabloid story. That's irrelevant. What matter's is that Clinton knew that it was true.

In January 1998, Clinton testified under oath that he had sexual relations with Flowers.

And I think you're confused; Clinton didn't schedule Ricky Ray Rector's execution, that was scheduled long before. Unless you mean that Clinton would have had to schedule his return to Arkansas long in advance. Neither of those make any sense. Timing could be a coincidence, but Clinton's reaction wasn't. He didn't need to go back to Arkansas, the execution could have been carried out just fine in his absence. As The Guardian reported:

The same week, Gennifer Flowers came forward with her story of a 12-year affair with the candidate. Beset by crisis, Governor Clinton broke off his campaign in New Hampshire to return to Little Rock for Rector’s execution. There was no legal obligation on him to do so; as the Houston Chronicle remarked, “never – or at least not in the recent history of presidential campaigns – has a contender for the nation’s highest elective office stepped off the campaign trail to ensure the killing of a prisoner.”

I am not going to get caught up in the emotions of a mentally ill murderer facing the death penalty who caused his own mental illness. His actions put him there regardless of how it turned out. I certainly am not going to come to an unlikely conclusion from circumstantial evidence when more likely well establish evidence exists.

He wasn't mentally ill, he was mentally disabled. You should really spend some more time researching this.

[Sury]

The link is meaningless. There's no citiation. It's speculation after the fact. If you're trying to use that as proof that Clinton was planning to return to Arkansas to oversee the execution before the story broke, then it fails miserably.

It is your link. Your entire accusation is speculation after the fact on your part. I am not interested in proving your conspiracy theory. Other than articles with speculations and coincidental timelines you have yet to provide any citation yourself that proves your theory. Nothing you have presented has quoted Bill Clinton stating he took that trip to distract the electorate from focusing on the scandal. We both know that statement was never made and never will be made. All of this is nothing more than speculation after the fact on your part. What is widely accepted is his stance on capital punishment and him making the trip to counter his political opponents weak debate answer on the issue.

It doesn't matter that it was a tabloid story. That's irrelevant. What matter's is that Clinton knew that it was true.

It is pretty obvious he knew the story was at least somewhat true. No one here is even remotely trying to dispute that. The only thing being disputed is the baseless accusation that it is somehow the reason for the trip and not the fact he went to double down on this strong stance supporting capital punishment, which was the reason for the trip.

And I think you're confused; Clinton didn't schedule Ricky Ray Rector's execution, that was scheduled long before. Unless you mean that Clinton would have had to schedule his return to Arkansas long in advance. Neither of those make any sense. Timing could be a coincidence, but Clinton's reaction wasn't. He didn't need to go back to Arkansas, the execution could have been carried out just fine in his absence. As The Guardian reported:

Confused? Not even a little bit. Not sure how you got the indication that I thought Bill scheduled the execution. I very clearly was talking about scheduling a trip back to Arizona to make a very specific political posture to defeat his opponent. It makes perfect sense in a busy primary that he would need to plan out that trip more than 24 hours in advance. It was a purposeful maneuver to gain momentum over his opponents debate answer. No one is claiming he needed to be present.

He wasn't mentally ill, he was mentally disabled. You should really spend some more time researching this.

Ill was a typo on my part. I made it very clear in a previous reply that I knew the details of his attempted suicide. At this point you are just being obtuse. Frankly, I just do not care that much about this fictional theory.

[Merkava]

You're confused.

[Amunrasonther]

Hillary's killing it right now!

Well actually, she's doing nothing and trump is flushing his prospects down the toilet. Who would of thought a Muslim was the key to tanking him!

[Sury]

You're confused.

That is a fact.

Somehow I read that wiki and I linked the two elections.

Dukakis lost the 1988 presidential election because of the weak debate answer and a photo circulated of young Bush on a submarine



Clinton doubling down on capital punishment to strengthen his soft image was the following election.

How silly of me.

It makes perfect sense now considering the CNN series I remember was: http://www.cnn.com/shows/race-for-the-white-house

[Deleted]

You don't get to rewrite facts because the reality doesn't match what you wish had happened.

Yes my dear Endus, obviously corruption that is inconvenient to your world view does not exist. (it does)

I mean shit you infracted me a few months ago for 'trolling' when I said hillary was lying about her emails cauz ' we don't entertain conspiracy theories here'. You can take your Trump conspiracy's and enter the trump mega thread

Endus, what you brushed off and infracted for as conspiracy theory turned out to be a fact instead. How do you explain yourself? Do you have the decency to apologize to Stacyrect for your (convenient?) ignorance ?

It is reasonable to assume that the above example will be far from the last thing that turns out to be a fact regardless of your feeling-driven disregard for things that go contrair to your liberal views.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Guess I'll dump this here so it can be ignored.

Ya, she misspoke, got it, right, sure, I hear ya, fine, 10%er anyway, not my problem.

[Deleted]

Guess I'll dump this here so it can be ignored.

Ya, she misspoke, got it, right, sure, I hear ya, fine, 10%er anyway, not my problem.

Misspoke my fucking ass....

The best part is when the entire crowd cheers her - either they are complete idiots or they just really are not paying attention to a fucking thing she is saying

Kinda reminds me of Keith Ellison (our first Muslim congressman) saying Trump is the worst Republican candidate since George Wallace, although Wallace was a fucking Democrat. Fucking idiot.