We are ridiculously powerful...so why do you have a problem with

[ravenmoon]

Thrall, Malfurion, Illidan, Jaina, Garrosh, Khadgar and every single hero you are not in control of for being powerful? You do just as ridiculous feats and pull off the impossible against things that should many times over have killed you.

To be so bugged by the so called Mary Sue characters in the lore I think is downright hypocritical, and if being powerful is so offensive and bad writing to you, than you're being more double minded playing this game which from start to finish portrays you as a ridiculously overpowered hero.

My recommendation, quit !! If not, put up, you either like this sort of thing or you don't, but no more hating just because they're powerful, because you are also insanely so, if they are written badly as characters, that's a different story - but don't keep criticising without offering a better solution - otherwise you can't make that assertion, it's one thing to say you don't like it, it's another thing to come out and say, it's badly written.

[jettzypher]

I don't have a problem with it...


I think some people lose sight of the fact that this is still an rpg at its core, and we are playing characters that are more than just a forgettable face swimming in the crowd of would-be heroes. Aside from that.... *shrug*

[klogaroth]

The role of the player in WoW being one of someone that is far too powerful doesn't make other problems with the story better. It just means that there's two problems.

Player power creep in story terms in a decade old game is something that's fairly likely to come about though.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Thrall, Malfurion, Illidan, Jaina, Garrosh, Khadgar and every single hero you are not in control of for being powerful? You do just as ridiculous feats and pull off the impossible against things that should many times over have killed you.

To be so bugged by the so called Mary Sue characters in the lore I think is downright hypocritical, and if being powerful is so offensive and bad writing to you, than you're being more double minded playing this game which from start to finish portrays you as a ridiculously overpowered hero.

My recommendation, quit !! If not, put up, you either like this sort of thing or you don't, but no more hating just because they're powerful, because you are also insanely so, if they are written badly as characters, that's a different story - but don't keep criticising without offering a better solution - otherwise you can't make that assertion, it's one thing to say you don't like it, it's another thing to come out and say, it's badly written.

These chars, while being terrible, are still better written than the pc charaers, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I have a much easier time believing in khadgars power, than the random playable mage etc.

[Combatbutler]

These chars, while being terrible, are still better written than the pc charaers, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I have a much easier time believing in khadgars power, than the random playable mage etc.

What you don't believe in the power of my hobo transmogged mage extraordinaire, how dare you he is sustained by at least 12 bottles rum per hour.

OT

PC are abyssal and most of their feats are gameplay driven, unfortunately blizz decided to make us incredibly powerful, pretty much never failing. It wouldn't be as bad if we would just loose far more often, because even though we are powerful cannot stem the tide.

[Erbel]

Because those people are basement dwelling neckbeards or disgruntled 20 and 30-somethings working jobs they hate and living boring lives so they live vicariously through their player character doing all of these great deeds in a virtual world to make up for their shitty real life. Whenever a lore character is as powerful or more powerful than their PC or does a great deed too these losers, for lack of a better term, see it as a threat to the monopoly they wish to have over the virtual glory. So instead of making a change in their life so it's more exciting they bitch on the internet about a fictional character and call them terms such as mary sue.

[Combatbutler]

Because those people are basement dwelling neckbeards or disgruntled 20 and 30-somethings working jobs they hate and living boring lives so they live vicariously through their player character doing all of these great deeds in a virtual world to make up for their shitty real life. Whenever a lore character is as powerful or more powerful than their PC or does a great deed too these losers, for lack of a better term, see it as a threat to the monopoly they wish to have over the virtual glory. So instead of making a change in their life so it's more exciting they bitch on the internet about a fictional character and call them terms such as mary sue.

Aren't you a little bundle of sunshine ;P

[Mehrunes]

Ravenmoon not knowing how opinions work episode 500.

[Galbrei]

Wow's lore is shit and the portrayal of all these characters mentioned by the OP is part of the reason. Luckily I don't play the game for the lore, I do it to raid with friends, so it doesn't bother me much.

[Traveler Voltin]

people complained for the longest time about having lore characters steal kills on bosses.

[Deleted]

do you read the books? do you what Malf did during War of the Ancients ? and also in StormRage ?

and we are not even 1% capable of what malf is capable of. All Raid bosses one-shot us if we go in alone.

so you are utterly wrong on multiple counts.

Raid bosses one-shot us because it is required for the gameplay, so we can play with a team. But actually they are not that powerful. Also bosses don't get 1000 stronger over the expansions. That happens for gameplay mechanics too. Blizz just didn't come up with an idea how to make players the main character of the story. For example how would you voice act something where the NPC actually calls you by your character name? Or how would you make an ingame video where you or your actual team kills something? So many variables, it cannot be done as easily as doing just one video where a known lore character does something.
And one more thing. How would you write the lore in books, wowwiki, etc? Millions of kills on every boss. Who killed it actually? Maybe if we were playing premade lore characters instead of self made ones.

[Necroofeelya]

Raid bosses one-shot us because it is required for the gameplay, so we can play with a team. But actually they are not that powerful. Also bosses don't get 1000 stronger over the expansions. That happens for gameplay mechanics too. Blizz just didn't come up with an idea how to make players the main character of the story. For example how would you voice act something where the NPC actually calls you by your character name? Or how would you make an ingame video where you or your actual team kills something? So many variables, it cannot be done as easily as doing just one video where a known lore character does something.
And one more thing. How would you write the lore in books, wowwiki, etc? Millions of kills on every boss. Who killed it actually? Maybe if we were playing premade lore characters instead of self made ones.

I am trying to follow what you are saying here in relevance to the point Raamul made. Blizz has already implement our story into the lore. The lore of the game that is. We are referenced to as the "Heroes of Azeroth" There is no need to implement it in the books or videos or the dialogue. We are always and all addressed as heroes. Not by name. Blizz stats in every expansion that there is multiple of us.
Lich king, Deathwing, Illidian always ending in "Defeated by the heroes of azeroth" There is no need to define by specific name, class or guild. It is irrelevant.

OT with Raamul to add on and support the topic
The NPC characters are stronger than the heroes by ten fold. Anyone who believes that they are stronger than a NPC character is arrogant. These NPC characters have soloed major events in the past.
Whenever we fight something we have to fight in a group.

The universe in the books and in the games need to be taken different however. Because in the books, you don't have 3mil+ random characters running around.
The game scales to that fact by not only administering the typical raid format of 25man, but also putting the player character in their place as a cooperative hero to the cause instead of some overpowered tyrant that could overthrow both factions.


This conflicts with legions latest artifact idea with doomhammer and ashbringer, that is a whole different topic though :P

[Archibalde]

Thrall, Malfurion, Illidan, Jaina, Garrosh, Khadgar and every single hero you are not in control of for being powerful? You do just as ridiculous feats and pull off the impossible against things that should many times over have killed you.

There have been lots of complaints from players about becoming way too powerful, though. Plenty of people are against the idea of being commanders of their faction or leaders of their entire class, they want to go back to being random adventurers. You can't really ignore those people and claim the playerbase as a whole is hypocritical.

[Wyrt]

It's extremely detrimental to the story, but it's too late to change it now. The can of worms has been opened.

[Rarespawn2012]

Because those people are basement dwelling neckbeards or disgruntled 20 and 30-somethings working jobs they hate and living boring lives so they live vicariously through their player character doing all of these great deeds in a virtual world to make up for their shitty real life. Whenever a lore character is as powerful or more powerful than their PC or does a great deed too these losers, for lack of a better term, see it as a threat to the monopoly they wish to have over the virtual glory. So instead of making a change in their life so it's more exciting they bitch on the internet about a fictional character and call them terms such as mary sue.

Tell us how you really feel?

[Zenny]

Because those people are basement dwelling neckbeards or disgruntled 20 and 30-somethings working jobs they hate and living boring lives so they live vicariously through their player character doing all of these great deeds in a virtual world to make up for their shitty real life. Whenever a lore character is as powerful or more powerful than their PC or does a great deed too these losers, for lack of a better term, see it as a threat to the monopoly they wish to have over the virtual glory. So instead of making a change in their life so it's more exciting they bitch on the internet about a fictional character and call them terms such as mary sue.

Damn, I'm really sorry my real life does not include slaying dragons and saving the world. Can you tell me how I would go about doing that in real life? Do I have to join up in any sort of program?

Is the pay good as well? I just recently bought a house and would really like to not have to miss some payments.

[Wewlad]

The problem with Warcraft's current power dynamics are that adventurers (player characters) were thrown into a world that didn't host them prior. Blizzard then had to juggle not only established and future lore hero characters (Thrall, Jaina, etc.) but all these newcomers ripped from nothingness.

Blizzard has tried to continue telling the RTS story in an MMORPG which isn't the best platform for what they might have wanted to tell because the adventurers have to be vague yet (due to player expectation) they accomplish most great deeds (sans kill stealing). The actual characters are sidelined the entire time, and while a story between them ensues, it's constantly pushed away whenever the adventurers step in.

Villains are also difficult to handle. Unlike in the RTS games, antagonists can't do much actual damage to the players because their characters must always win.

One thing I enjoyed about Vanilla's story is how Blizzard had been focused on world building over telling a linear story. Not that this aspect was completely lost in the expansions. While everyone is now the protagonist, I do love Suramar.

But we can't shove milk back up a cow's utter, so the only thing I can say is that any future RTS games are better off taking place in an alternate universe after WC3.

[Beloren]

I like us being powerful, and I like the heroes being powerful - sure they could write them better, but they need to be able to do extraordinary things.

I like how they handle Malfurion and Thrall as these guys dont' seem to be up their own arses, and they usually using their wits as opposed to raw power and seem to manage the forces they will rather than are wilding them because of their sheer might. I like that about them. I don't mind them being powerful

[Wildmoon]

If you do notice that in case of druid, you do not become the leader of Cenarion Circle. You just become the leader of the sect in Val'Sharah. Malfurion is still the leader of CC.

[Justpassing]

If you do notice that in case of druid, you do not become the leader of Cenarion Circle. You just become the leader of the sect in Val'Sharah. Malfurion is still the leader of CC.

Not a fair comparison; player Druid would have to quad-wield all the artifacts to be as half as powerful as Furion.