Creators, fans and death threats: Talking to Joss Whedon, Neil Gaiman and more on the

[Darsithis]

Get back on topic, please. Keep moderation concerns private in a message to the global team.

[Venant]

Conspiracy theories are against the site rules, I'd be careful if I were you.

My posts speak for themselves.

So you post a picture of a few dozen cherry-picked GamerGate sock puppets and lay the blame for their false flags at the feet of all feminists?

Thank you for once again proving my point.

Wouldn't claiming that GamerGate conducted a false flag operation to harass Whedon off Twitter be considered a conspiracy theory? I couldn't resist pointing out that the logic you are applying doesn't seem to have an internal consistency, suggesting that perhaps you are arguing from emotion and not from logic.

The problem is that many people want to turn the internet into a 'safe space', which is a utopian ideal that can not be achieved without eliminating almost all vestiges of personal freedom. The idea of protecting the feelings of people may be emotionally satisfying, however any system that is intrusive enough to do this would be far too easy to abuse.

[Stonecloak]

The problem is that many people want to turn the internet into a 'safe space', which is a utopian ideal that can not be achieved without eliminating almost all vestiges of personal freedom. The idea of protecting the feelings of people may be emotionally satisfying, however any system that is intrusive enough to do this would be far too easy to abuse.

Is that completely true? Is it not possible to trace the offenders? I take it in order for them to do this in the first place they'd have to be pretty stupid to begin with, so erasing all their traces wouldn't be a factor, no? It's really becoming nonsensical and people don't deserve it, not in a civilized society.

[Espe]

Wouldn't claiming that GamerGate conducted a false flag operation to harass Whedon off Twitter be considered a conspiracy theory?

I'm not posting links to conspiracy theory websites like he was, I was simply questioning the validity of an image linked by an obvious zealot of a cause that has already been known to employ such tactics frequently in its very short existence.

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Is that completely true? Is it not possible to trace the offenders? I take it in order for them to do this in the first place they'd have to be pretty stupid to begin with, so erasing all their traces wouldn't be a factor, no? It's really becoming nonsensical and people don't deserve it, not in a civilized society.

I'm also of the opinion that threats are threats no matter what media they are broadcast on. The problem you'll have is the same problem that people have with out of control gun violence in the US. "Well it's a big problem so let's just do nothing and see how it goes." Anyone who suggests solutions is rebutted or outright attacked for even daring to speak up.

[Venant]

I'm not posting links to conspiracy theory websites like he was, I was simply questioning the validity of an image linked by an obvious zealot of a cause that has already been known to employ such tactics frequently in its very short existence.

There are bad and good points that arise from most movements. I think we can agree, in light of recent revelations about the relation of the media and the political establishment, that gamergate did shine a light on the problem of journalist collusion. Whether you are on the left or right, I don't see how it is beneficial for the media having a 'narrative' dictated by some sort of central power. We need to put the needs of the masses who are getting their information from the media above the needs of a small group of elite that want a narrative pushed.

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Is that completely true? Is it not possible to trace the offenders? I take it in order for them to do this in the first place they'd have to be pretty stupid to begin with, so erasing all their traces wouldn't be a factor, no? It's really becoming nonsensical and people don't deserve it, not in a civilized society.

The most effective way of tracing people would be to have individual moderators report posts (on websites like this) up a chain of command. Endus claims it would be the site owner, but I'm pretty sure the owner of MMOChamp doesn't read every single post made on these forums.

I cannot help but think it is extremely reminiscent of informant networks that existed in the past under extremely authoritarian regimes.

[Espe]

gamergate did shine a light on the problem of journalist collusion

You can speak for yourself, like I have said multiple times I was there from the beginning. The movement started as #FiveGuysAndFries / #quinnspiracy, literally slut-shaming by a jilted ex. That is the whole reason I posted about it in this thread, it is relevant to the topic. Just because it morphed into #GamerGate after a few days and clumsily tacked on a faux crusade for "ethics in gaming journalism" doesn't mean it was "successful" in any way except in the minds of those who are so desperate for a win that they have deluded themselves into believing their impotent rage provided it. You can't polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

[Jotaux]

You can speak for yourself, like I have said multiple times I was there from the beginning. The movement started as #FiveGuysAndFries / #quinnspiracy, literally slut-shaming by a jilted ex. That is the whole reason I posted about it in this thread, it is relevant to the topic. Just because it morphed into #GamerGate after a few days and clumsily tacked on a faux crusade for "ethics in gaming journalism" doesn't mean it was "successful" in any way except in the minds of those who are so desperate for a win that they have deluded themselves into believing their impotent rage provided it. You can't polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

You seem really distraught over this topic. I know it can be hard when what you though was the devil actually did a lot of good and won ethics in gaming journalism.

[Espe]

You seem really distraught over this topic. I know it can be hard when what you though was the devil actually did a lot of good and won ethics in gaming journalism.

I don't know how you're reading distraught from my posts, they're just simple facts.

As for the rest, hey whatever helps you get to sleep at night I guess. Have you been in the #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGate thread here on mmoc lately though? If not you should definitely check it out, I guess the crusade has finally morphed into a staunch defense of bondage lolli porn.

We all have our battles to fight, I suppose

[Stonecloak]

There are bad and good points that arise from most movements. I think we can agree, in light of recent revelations about the relation of the media and the political establishment, that gamergate did shine a light on the problem of journalist collusion. Whether you are on the left or right, I don't see how it is beneficial for the media having a 'narrative' dictated by some sort of central power. We need to put the needs of the masses who are getting their information from the media above the needs of a small group of elite that want a narrative pushed.

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The most effective way of tracing people would be to have individual moderators report posts (on websites like this) up a chain of command. Endus claims it would be the site owner, but I'm pretty sure the owner of MMOChamp doesn't read every single post made on these forums.

I cannot help but think it is extremely reminiscent of informant networks that existed in the past under extremely authoritarian regimes.

Well I mean a report shouldn't suggest the site owner, or moderators should dig through thousands of posts. If there's a death threat, have there be a report option, which will prove when and where it happened so there can be no shenanigans to frame, and then have it sent up.

[Jotaux]

I don't know how you're reading distraught from my posts, they're just simple facts.

Your posts are essentially rants with insults strewn throughout. That and a lot of it is your opinion not facts.

[Espe]

Your posts are essentially rants with insults strewn throughout. That and a lot of it is your opinion not facts.

Hey Jotaux, your mirror arrived, maybe you would like to take a look in it?

[urasim]

I don't know how you're reading distraught from my posts, they're just simple facts.

As for the rest, hey whatever helps you get to sleep at night I guess. Have you been in the #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGate thread here on mmoc lately though? If not you should definitely check it out, I guess the crusade has finally morphed into a staunch defense of bondage lolli porn.

We all have our battles to fight, I suppose

They're defending content creators in there...

You haven't said a single fact since coming into the thread derailing the topic. If you want to talk about GG, maybe you should get the fuck out of this thread and talk about it over there?

[Espe]

You haven't said a single fact since coming into the thread derailing the topic. If you want to talk about GG, maybe you should get the fuck out of this thread and talk about it over there?

I have made my point several times now. #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGate started with a content creator getting death threats because of her views, catalyzed by a jilted ex and the latent misogyny of desperate anonymous trolls. Zoe Quinn had to deal with the exact same shit the female developer from the article did, not to mention all of the other developers who were the victims of targeted harassment because of the "movement."

People started discussing what to do about this issue, I point out that this very same forum has one of that last remaining #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGate threads, point out that it should have been closed per site rules several times already and suggest maybe we could start close to home.

Of course for simply pointing out these simple facts I am attacked from multiple angles. Thanks for at least proving my point.

[Jotaux]

Hey Jotaux, your mirror arrived, maybe you would like to take a look in it?

Nothing I've posted has been long enough to be a rant and I have stayed away from insults. Gaming journalist sites were forced to enact proper ethical policies, especially when it comes to disclosure which was the purpose of gamergate. When you achieve all your goals I don't know what to call it other than a win.

[Theodarzna]

This is why I think we need slightly less anonymity on the Internet. Not that everyone goes by their real names under force of law, but that site providers can connect your account with your real identity, for cases like this when actual threats are made.

Threatening to hurt someone, or their kids, isn't less of a crime because you do it on Twitter or Reddit, rather than over the phone or in an angry note on someone's door. It's criminal, regardless.

Try not to take this the wrong way, but I simply don't trust anyone who moderates forums and web platforms to not abuse that sort of power one way or another.

[Espe]

Try not to take this the wrong way, but I simply don't trust anyone who moderates forums and web platforms to not abuse that sort of power one way or another.

I don't see the issue unless you're saying you think mmoc or other forum moderators would create false death threats and send them to law enforcement.

[Jotaux]

I have made my point several times now. #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGate started with a content creator getting death threats because of her views, catalyzed by a jilted ex and the latent misogyny of desperate anonymous trolls. Zoe Quinn had to deal with the exact same shit the female developer from the article did, not to mention all of the other developers who were the victims of targeted harassment because of the "movement."

Terrible people generally get a lot of shit thrown their way. Do you have any evidence of these threats? Who they came from? No? Nothing?

Of course for simply pointing out these simple facts I am attacked from multiple angles. Thanks for at least proving my point.

You've attacked everyone else and are now trying to pull a victim card? Looks like Xekus was right in his assessment of you.

[Theodarzna]

I don't see the issue unless you're saying you think mmoc or other forum moderators would create false death threats and send them to law enforcement.

I think if they had that sort of power, not specifically MMOC, but just anyone in that sort of position over people, I just see that being rife for abuse and all sorts of coercion.

[Espe]

Gaming journalist sites were forced to enact proper ethical policies

Yeah, if you're going to make wild claims you're going to have to provide evidence for them.

[Jotaux]

Also I had to laugh at this just a page apart.

Oh that's clever, "no u"

Hey Jotaux, your mirror arrived, maybe you would like to take a look in it?

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Yeah, if you're going to make wild claims you're going to have to provide evidence for them.

They aren't wild claims.