Sabertooth talent question.

[Deleted]

Reading up on Icy Veins, i ran into this:

"Your bleeds no longer snapshots your character's stats, as they had once done. That said, bleed snapshotting does still exist for Feral Druids, but it only works with damage-increasing buffs. This is to say that the damage of your bleeds is determined at the time when they are applied, based on what buffs you have active, and the bleeds will continue to do the same damage throughout their durations, even if those buffs expire in the meantime. The result of this is that bleeds applied when you are under effects that increase your damage are more powerful than bleeds applied when you are not under any such effects."

Now my question is, if let's say i pop a potion, the legendary ring and tiger's fury and apply a RIP that is supposed to do let's say 200k dmg over 24 sec, will this talent refresh rip as if it were used with 5 combo points but no buffs and do less than 200k in 24 sec or is it going to refresh it back to 200k/24 sec?

[Gemini Soul]

Reading up on Icy Veins, i ran into this:

"Your bleeds no longer snapshots your character's stats, as they had once done. That said, bleed snapshotting does still exist for Feral Druids, but it only works with damage-increasing buffs. This is to say that the damage of your bleeds is determined at the time when they are applied, based on what buffs you have active, and the bleeds will continue to do the same damage throughout their durations, even if those buffs expire in the meantime. The result of this is that bleeds applied when you are under effects that increase your damage are more powerful than bleeds applied when you are not under any such effects."

Now my question is, if let's say i pop a potion, the legendary ring and tiger's fury and apply a RIP that is supposed to do let's say 200k dmg over 24 sec, will this talent refresh rip as if it were used with 5 combo points but no buffs and do less than 200k in 24 sec or is it going to refresh it back to 200k/24 sec?

It would refresh the the boost from TF and I'm pretty sure from the ring also, as a side note take what Icy Veins says with a grain of salt their guides aren't the greatest and you can find better info on this site.

[Deleted]

It will carry on the Tiger's Fury buff but not the potion or ring. At least that's the behaviour for Ferocious Bite extended Rip's below 25% target health. And as I understand it, the talent should work the same.

[Krusza]

It only snapshots with things that provide a direct damage increase, normally said to be in percent ("increases damage by x%")

e.g. Bloodtalons, SR, TF etc.

So a potion wouldn't snapshot. You'd have to test legendary to see if it works, I'm not sure.

[Deleted]

One thing that blizzard could add for feral druids in the "N" menu alongside specialisation is a passive "snapshotting" with tooltip explaining how it works. That would help new players.

[Puupi]

One thing that blizzard could add for feral druids in the "N" menu alongside specialisation is a passive "snapshotting" with tooltip explaining how it works. That would help new players.

Better one: fix the damn clunky mechanic aka remove snapshotting altogether.

[Invispoet]

Better one: fix the damn clunky mechanic aka remove snapshotting altogether.

It's funny how some people complain about homogenization and/or complexity being removed from the game or classes, yet others want to remove what some would argue is essentially a unique and defining attribute of one of the specs that adds complexity.

*on topic*

I would assume that TF, BT, SR, (or Incarnation if spec'd) bonuses would all be carried over, but I have no idea about the legendary ring (or soul capacitor, for that matter).

[Puupi]

It's funny how some people complain about homogenization and/or complexity being removed from the game or classes, yet others want to remove what some would argue is essentially a unique and defining attribute of one of the specs that adds complexity.

Unique and defining attribute of the spec? Please. It's a clunky remnant mechanic due to bad design just like haste plateaus for dot ticks were.

It isn't a great feature of the class. It's just clever use of (bad) game mechanics.

[Invispoet]

Unique and defining attribute of the spec? Please. It's a clunky remnant mechanic due to bad design just like haste plateaus for dot ticks were.

It isn't a great feature of the class. It's just clever use of (bad) game mechanics.

You can argue that you don't like it...and that's fine. You can't argue that it's nearly unique, because I can't think of another spec that actually uses the mechanic (although there's 6-7 specs I don't play, I may be missing one. "defining" may be a bit subjective, but they removed ALL other snapshotting and specifically left it for feral. It's been there almost as long as feral has been a viable DPS spec.

I'm reasonably certain that if you asked anyone that is familiar with a feral druid to describe the core mechanics/concepts, bleeds, snapshotting, and mobility would probably be the most common answers. (again, I agree that this part is subjective).

[Krusza]

Unique and defining attribute of the spec? Please. It's a clunky remnant mechanic due to bad design just like haste plateaus for dot ticks were.

It isn't a great feature of the class. It's just clever use of (bad) game mechanics.

Disagree as well. I like it.

[wombats23]

Unique and defining attribute of the spec? Please. It's a clunky remnant mechanic due to bad design just like haste plateaus for dot ticks were.

It isn't a great feature of the class. It's just clever use of (bad) game mechanics.

haste plateaus were a bad mechanic because literally 1 point of haste would result in a statistically significant DPS increase (i.e. over 1%, for literally 1 point).

snapshotting was bad in previous expansions because it required you to pray for rng trinket procs (remember when RPPM trinkets weren't guaranteed to proc on the pull?), alongside hopefully lining them up with CDs. this was not fun when you got unlucky (and when you did get lucky, it didn't feel all to special, just another typical day of raiding); snapshotting back then was all about luck due to the RPPM system, along with some weakauras/TMWs to alert you to pop your swifty macro.

feral's form on snapshotting in legion is 95% controllable:
-tiger's fury? on a constant CD that you can choose to hold if necessary
-bloodtalons? you choose when to cast HT (which are made instant by your finishers)
-SR? proper maintenance involves on-the-go short term planning (do you have TF, berserk, artifact ability, rip duration, rake duration)
it rewards you for playing to your utmost best.

the only RNG element in it is you'll sometimes build CPs astonishingly quick from critting with shred/rake and other times feel starved because of crits generating a second CP.
that said, you naturally have 15% crit at level 110 naked in cat form. you can get another 15% crit on your shred from maxing an artifact talent. you'll probably have another 15% crit from being full heroic dungeon geared (i have an additional 13% at 820 ilvl). yes, you will occasionally run in to bouts of bad luck, but they shouldn't be as common as, say, pre-raid gear 85 fire mages in cataclysm.

you want to call snapshotting bad? fine, explain why. snapshotting is no where near comparable to haste plateaus. it's honestly astounding that you believe you can compare a mechanic that takes place in actual combat (snapshotting) with picking the right pieces of gear/reforges (haste plateaus).

[Raugnaut]

Reading up on Icy Veins, i ran into this:

"Your bleeds no longer snapshots your character's stats, as they had once done. That said, bleed snapshotting does still exist for Feral Druids, but it only works with damage-increasing buffs. This is to say that the damage of your bleeds is determined at the time when they are applied, based on what buffs you have active, and the bleeds will continue to do the same damage throughout their durations, even if those buffs expire in the meantime. The result of this is that bleeds applied when you are under effects that increase your damage are more powerful than bleeds applied when you are not under any such effects."

Now my question is, if let's say i pop a potion, the legendary ring and tiger's fury and apply a RIP that is supposed to do let's say 200k dmg over 24 sec, will this talent refresh rip as if it were used with 5 combo points but no buffs and do less than 200k in 24 sec or is it going to refresh it back to 200k/24 sec?

Last I checked, Blizzard ALWAYS makes permanent DoTs scale dynamically with everything, whereas normal DoTs scaled dynamically with everything but +%damage buffs, such as the ring, TF, and SR.

Ima do some target dummy testing right quick.