Recent Nerfs - Blizzard feedback threads

[Blurr]

Ugh. I would rather have the passive 15% with Death's Advance then Wraith Walk. Waith Walk in general is SO bad. We can't do ANYTHING while it's active. Apply diseases while running to another part of the boss encounter? Nope. Combat res an ally whilst trying to run to that one mob so you can interrupt it? Nope.

These changes would make sense if Wraith Walk wasn't such a stupid spell to begin with. I just don't understand the balancing team sometimes. This is horrible. I bet no one there actually plays an unholy death knight in a raid setting.

I agree. I'd rather just let Unholy have Death's Advance and not even give us Wraith Walk, imo.

[Statix]

I don't give a shit about lore; what I care about is keeping up with the rest of the group in dungeons.

Unholy has Death's Advance, but can also upgrade Wraith Walk, as can Blood. Unholy can increase the movement speed increase, Blood can increase the duration. But what does Frost get? Their upgrade reduces damage taken and whenever you enter or leave, you reduce the movement speed of everything around you by 50%. How does that help me in dungeons when I want to keep up with the rest of the group?

So much shit doesn't make sense lorewise, so why do they always think of crap like this? Why are they always a thorn in the player's side, why not, for once, do what the community asks, instead of pushing your own crappy agenda?

[vilememory]

Frost is dead to Blizzard, always has been. Unholy is now getting the nerf bat because Frost doesn't squeel anymore, it just takes it. Just reroll blood, game needs more tanks anyway. Blizzard doesn't want DK's to dps, they are just tanks like warriors.

[Grimskull22]

Frost is dead to Blizzard, always has been. Unholy is now getting the nerf bat because Frost doesn't squeel anymore, it just takes it. Just reroll blood, game needs more tanks anyway. Blizzard doesn't want DK's to dps, they are just tanks like warriors.

except we're close to launch and aside from a few logistical changes, and things meant to overall round talents out, and this, we've maintained our damage. Unholy is amazing still

[vilememory]

except we're close to launch and aside from a few logistical changes, and things meant to overall round talents out, and this, we've maintained our damage. Unholy is amazing still

And yet people still bitch about these nerfs to unholy, we are a little less amazing now! This will not stand!

[Statix]

Oh, didn't even notice they removed Death's Advance from Unholy. What the hell are they doing, man... Unholy has always had that passive movement speed increase...

Unholy had too much mobility? Ehh, dudes, have you checked Windwalker Monks with Roll, Tiger's Lust, Flying Serpent Kick and a 10% passive movement speed increase!?
Or Rogues, with Sprint, Shadowstep, Shadowstrike (as Subletly) and a passive 15% movement speed increase!?

There's no logic here. Figuring out Blizzard's motives and reasoning is more difficult than figuring out what the universe is.

[Deleted]

We are in a good spot, but on the other side we have to be a strong pick that it ist worthwhile to play the spec in Highend Enviroment. Blizz takes away all utility from the Dps Classes, thats ok but so every specc must be competitive. Now you say thats impossible. I thinks its the Job of the Devs to do it. They are paid for this. And if a Class is too strong or to weak they must buff or nerf the Class fast, and dont wait until Progress is over.
If you compare the movement abilitys of the classes we dont look so bad. Only DH and Monk is really superior in Movment. And yes the remove of DA was not necassary
The nerf to CS was stupid and not necassary. Yes it was stronger than the other choices, but who cares? Assa Rogues got Exsanguinate. Most of the Time Rogues will take this. And if CS had really to much DPS output they could tune it done in the way that it is a dps neutral in fights with low/no movement and a dps gain in fights with a lot of movment. Now its dps loss in fights with low/no movment and i think a dps loss in movment fights.
If you look beta there are some classes, like Hunter, who are out of controll and here they do nothing. If they dont want to Balance things than pls tell the Players in Melee section this addon Rogue, DH and overall Hunter, Mages will be King so we dont waste our time to lvl a toon up and farm Artefact power only to sit on the bench.
I know its a little bit hyperbole, but if i see nerf wl, nerf DK and all other classes dont touch i think they are not willing to make a good balance.

And stop saying they had to nerf Unholy because Frost is not good. If they nerf Unholy instead of buffing Frost you can scrub the class.

[Hctaz]

Oh, didn't even notice they removed Death's Advance from Unholy. What the hell are they doing, man... Unholy has always had that passive movement speed increase...

Unholy had too much mobility? Ehh, dudes, have you checked Windwalker Monks with Roll, Tiger's Lust, Flying Serpent Kick and a 10% passive movement speed increase!?
Or Rogues, with Sprint, Shadowstep, Shadowstrike (as Subletly) and a passive 15% movement speed increase!?

There's no logic here. Figuring out Blizzard's motives and reasoning is more difficult than figuring out what the universe is.

It's a matter of balancing within the class itself and not class to class. Unholy had the movement speed because it was a flavor thing but ended up being pivotal later on as frost had more ranged damage and unholy needed to stay closer to targets. It wasn't as much an issue as before but now their ranged abilities exceed frost's and so they needed to remove this in order to balance the specs a little closer in terms of tools.

[cujoe]

The removal of Death Advance from UH is sensible. Why should a disease spreading , zombie summong Knight of Death be any faster than their blood and frost brethren? There is no justification class fantasy wise and with WWs reduced CD and our ranged capabilities we don't need it anyway. The whole argument that we had it since ever is just stupid. Things change. Deal with it.

[Hctaz]

And stop saying they had to nerf Unholy because Frost is not good. If they nerf Unholy instead of buffing Frost you can scrub the class.

Once again, somebody misses the point. Frost is just not as useful as unholy. You can tune the numbers all you want but unless you make the fights standstill Patchwerk style boss fights then it wouldn't matter. Unholy is superior based on the toolkit and I made a pretty compelling argument earlier as to why it would be bad to boost certain abilities on Frost dks (masterfrost build is stupid and Blizzard wanted to remove it) in order to give them a boost to AoE, or range. Unholy had too much over frost. They moved faster, had better sustain, had better AoE, had various CDs, had more damaging and useful long ranged abilities, had more constant damage even while taken out of the fight with the damage that pets do... It's just too much. They're too useful and too good in too many situations in comparison to frost and it has nothing to do with the damage that Unholy produces. Now... they could buff the shit out of Frost's up close single target damage but then frost would be too good compared to every other class and spec at damage on Patchwerk style fights and only be balanced around the fact that most fights have you moving or have adds/cleave. That wouldn't be good either as it would mean that Frost would be too strong for solo situations and would only be brought in line with raid mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

The removal of Death Advance from UH is sensible. Why should a disease spreading , zombie summong Knight of Death be any faster than their blood and frost brethren? There is no justification class fantasy wise and with WWs reduced CD and our ranged capabilities we don't need it anyway. The whole argument that we had it since ever is just stupid. Things change. Deal with it.

Reason was old balance. Unholy needed faster speed in order to get back in melee range whereas Frost had more ranged abilities. It's reversed now and they're seeing that unholy no longer needs the movement speed increase.

[Honkeymagoo]

I honestly think people overestimate unholy in pvp atm. While you can almost always top damage in bgs, that isn't the best metric of whether something is op or not. Outbreak spreads our dots to a ton of meaningless targets and inflates our damage. Also, having played almost every spec in the game, there are many that have much stronger burst and survivability. I can top damage in bgs as other specs as well and have a much easier time going something like 20-1. The only classes I didn't feel were really strong were pallies and dps shaman. Unholy's toolkit naturally makes them look strong in bgs, but that shouldn't be the primary way of judging their strength. Fotm rerollers are going to be disappointed when they see the strength of things like balance druids and spriests.

[Statix]

It's a matter of balancing within the class itself and not class to class. Unholy had the movement speed because it was a flavor thing but ended up being pivotal later on as frost had more ranged damage and unholy needed to stay closer to targets. It wasn't as much an issue as before but now their ranged abilities exceed frost's and so they needed to remove this in order to balance the specs a little closer in terms of tools.

But that's exactly the problem. They should balance it class to class, as well as spec to spec. How can one say Unholy is too mobile when literally every other melee class has way more mobility? Death Knights have one ability now, with a cooldown. I'm pretty sure all other melee classes have at least two, with some even four, be it passive or active. Hell, even ranged have more.

Death's Advance used to be an on-use ability that increased the movement speed by 30% for a short while with a cooldown on it. And then, Shamans have Ghost Wolf, which increases their movement speed by 30% whenever they want. Do you see how stupid this is? Death Knights get an ability with a cooldown, and Shamans get a free, at will, basically permanent movement speed increase ability...

Reason was old balance. Unholy needed faster speed in order to get back in melee range whereas Frost had more ranged abilities. It's reversed now and they're seeing that unholy no longer needs the movement speed increase.

Spec to spec, sure, it's balanced. But it's not when comparing Death Knights to other classes. And that's the problem. With every class having several mobility abilities, how can they justify giving Death Knights only one? I did a dungeon last night as Frost, Bloodmaul Slag Mines; there's quite a bit of running involved. I couldn't keep up with the rest: a Rogue, a Monk, a Warrior and a Priest.

Moreover, Unholy no longer needs the increased movement speed increase, you say, because they have ranged abilities as well. Explain to me why Priests can increase their movement speed whenever Power Word: Shield is off cooldown. A ranged class has better mobility than a melee class...

Nah, I'm done with Death Knight. I was really excited when I played Unholy again last week, but all that is gone.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Hctaz;41708170]Once again, somebody misses the point. Frost is just not as useful as unholy.

Ok sry they should nerf Unholy because the Dev did a bad job to make a good toolkit for Frost? Thats even more stupid. In this case, and i really dont care about Frost, they should rework Frost and dont nerf a spec of class and make it a bad choice.

[Nition]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Regardless, calling for nerfs to Unholy's toolkit is just silly. If you want to bring the specs closer together in terms of utility, you should be trying to get frost something to add to its toolkit. Because lets be honest, frost is just a damage bot right now without much else to it, which isn't exactly fun. Why should unholy have its utility removed (which actually makes the spec a lot more enjoyable to play), just to balance between the specs?

I think that's the point most people are trying to make against your thread. Why remove stuff from unholy when you could add something to frost instead.

[FertsBlert]

I'm not a Frost DK or an Unholy Dk or even a Blood DK, I play DK.

DK mobility is that bad that encounter design MUST be gimped to make allowance for it otherwise no DK will be viable at all, can't have tank abilities that require the tank to run away from the raid DK can't do that, can't have raid wide damage that needs a speed increase DK can't do that, can't have a boss that needs to be moved quickly out of something DK can't do that, sure people will say "get your warrior or drood or monk to tank it" so it's fine to have an entire class that is unable to perform their role on certain encounters? Thought they moved away from that design paradigm?

[Deleted]

I'm not a Frost DK or an Unholy Dk or even a Blood DK, I play DK.

So which artifact will this "DK" be feeding all his artifact power cookies?

Here's how it'll work in Legion: you don't play "DK", you play the spec of whichever artifact you built, and if that artifact spec is weak then you struggle and get benched. Specs are important and they must be competitive with each other now more than ever.

Unholy was - and possibly still is - king, and Frost was the doghouse spec, they needed to be brought closer to each other. I realize "nerf" is a dirty word that makes people angry, but game devs can't just buff and buff and buff some more, because then they end up with power creep, and power creep breaks games. And it's important to do as much of it before launch, because the changes will hurt way more after people have already invested in a spec that turns out to be a raiding/pvp/whatevertheywant to do dead-end.

[FertsBlert]

I will be feeding all my artifact power to Blood while leveling then once I have the first gold trait unlocked I will swap to feeding either Frost or Unholy for Dungeons by the time I am geared enough for raids I will be gaining around 1500-2000 Ap per world quest item so catching up either of the DPS Arti's or Filling more of the Blood Arti if I'm tanking is where I'll be.

Once you have 10 or so levels of research you gain enough Arti power for a good half dozen traits on an brand new artifact from ONE Ap item and you can easily get 3-4 a day.

It will slow down considerably as all your artifacts hit roughly the same level of traits unlocked but hey if you haven't made a choice by then which spec will be your main spec for the tier you probably never will. You will be easily effective in your role with only one gold trait unlocked you just won't be as effective as if you had a couple. Relics are far more important so while leveling save your spare relics for the types all your artifacts can use and if you happen to hit a quest that gives one and you WON'T need it swap your arti for the turn in.

And that is how it will work for Legion or at least that is how it worked when I was playing Dk at 110 on Legion beta.......

[Deleted]

Can't nerf and buff classes based on the current situation of dps. They're tuned for level 110 with artifact. We don't have either of those two. Trust me, frost will be pretty good at level 110, there'll be little to no difference.

[Saiona]

I never seem to see any kind of Arms Vs Fury war on our forums lol. Although frost is more newbie and probably is jelly that unholy is top dawg.

[Deleted]

You are right only buffing is not he solution, but nerfing spec a for spec b is also not the solution.You will gimp the Class as whole. You have also compare the class specs to other classes, because most of the dps spec has 0 utility so they have to be equal dps wise too.Why should i take a DK if a Rogue to better dps this expansion? Only if you like the player and want to raid with him/her. So the solution is rework and give frost more tools, if its in Legion necassary. Prepatch i dont care. And sry to say that if the dev design is shit they should rework it. Its their fucking job.