Death Knight Mobility

[Raikh]

I REALLY want to just emphasize on "Our damage is good yes, but there are classe sthat tie with us while having that mobility and they are tied witohut that mobility in mind, so there was no damage compensation."

So, with WORSE mobiity, we tie with other classes.... yet, you want MORE mobility(which ill say again, DKs arnt KNOWN FOR). If we are fine with our lack of mobility how is that a BAD thing exactly? Are you just wanting to feel stupid powerful just because? I havnt played in beta, nor have I even raided in the past 6 months(cant believe there are people who have, can you say stale? yuck!) but unless DK dps has dropped from when I last played, I dont see where the problem is exactly.

Lower mobility isnt a GOOD thing, we can agree on that. But it's thematic and a playstyle thing. Maybe the DK class playstyle isn't for you? Is there a class you feel has all upside and no downside whatsoever? I like systems of "give and take" not "lets give everybody everything just because". If DK right now is just unplayable in both pvp and pve because of their movement, then you got me there, if it's gotten that bad then yes maybe this should be looked into.

I said we are tied wie classes that have mobility without their mobility in mind. Aka patchwerk dps, where mobility isn't affecting output. The first part of my sentence was maybe a bit misleading, should've mentioned patchwekr dps to make it more clear.

Also, I never once said I wnated more mobility. I want compensation. That compensation doesn't need to affect our dps at all. Our output is pretty good right now on beta, asking for buffs in that state is something only mages can ask with a straight face.

I ask for something. That can be a solid selfheal, hell let it cost dps like DSi did. That can be stronger defensives (reasonable ibf cd, ams not being a joke, lower penalty on corpse shield or something else entirely). Yes that could also be mobility but as you said, its currently not part of the fantasy and therefore not a good fit. I would welcome trading Wraith Walk for the old Death's Advance but that is also hardly a mobility icnrease and more of functionality thing.

Personal favorite would be selfheal tbh. Selfheal is for me pretty iconic for the dk class. It was always there in some shape or form and subject to a lot changes but now they basically cut it, DS with being melee only, the huge cost and small heal makes it pretty unreliable and only useful for clutch moments and if you're not in melee range you cant yourself at all.

Lastly, if they wouldn't have nerfed Clawing Shadows into the ground I don't think I would've made the posts. Since then we would've a reasonable ranged filler, we could even AoE pretty well entirely from range, but they trashed that talent so we don't have that anymore without paying a significant amount of damage from the get go which CS won't bring back with its utility outside of extreme scenarios.

[Saverem]

It's just their play style. If you want to play a mobile melee class there are tons of other classes/specs that you can play.

A DK's weak point is their mobility; it's been that way ever since they were introduced in Wrath...

[Rias]

"Carried by bone"
Raise the hands of the dead under your feet, carrying you and increasing your movement speed

Love that name xD

[NecroSleetstorm]

It's just their play style. If you want to play a mobile melee class there are tons of other classes/specs that you can play.

A DK's weak point is their mobility; it's been that way ever since they were introduced in Wrath...

That would be fine if we were tops dogs on the DPS meters. That is not the case.

[Saverem]

That would be fine if we were tops dogs on the DPS meters. That is not the case.

That's not how balance works.

[Tykus]

That's not how balance works.

I think he meant top dogs in patchwork style dps. Class which has least mobility of all should be (atleast) one of the top dps for a fight which requires no movement.

Another example-

You've got 2 classes, both within 1% of each other patchwork style, and lets say 2% diff in aoe style. The slightly lower dps class is very mobile, the other isn't. Would you call that balanced? Maybe you would, maybe I would. But that is the point many are trying to make.

[psyquest]

some people seems to not have ever played an rpg

classes have strenght and weaknesses. You choose classes knowing this which allows for balanced groups to covers each others weakness and brings in each strenght to defeat an encounter.

Currently blizzard has come back, removed mobility for DKs and stated it is the class weakness bla bla. So ok this is the class weakness, what reason beside class fantasy do we play this class:

is it more durable?
do it heal more than other melee
does it have unique utility
does it bring more dps


These are valid questions because other melee do as well if not better dps than DKs while having superior mobility. And here lies the problem and the point people are making in this thread and obvious trolls or blind people refuse to understand.

nb: I honestly believe that blizzard will almost certainly nerf DKs more so as we end up yet again in the middle of the pack and keep our mobility as is. I have had way too many experiences with knee jerks nerf reactions to not expect one yet again. clawing shadow was a reminder.

[theyanger]

Not sure why people are suddenly up in arms over this, did you just roll a Death Knight last year and think Unholy Presence and Death's Advance were permanent features of the class?

We've always been slow. We have grip and lots of snares, it's kind of our thing. An imposing spectre of death baring down on our enemies etc (lore reasons). At the end of the day, aslong as we're doing competitive DPS (and you can't say we're not) then the only disadvantage is if you're slow to react to mechanics, to which I say: get better.

[Deleted]

I don't mind reduced mobility if Blizzard actually grows balls to make their statement about us hitting hard when we come in range true.

Right now it's BS. Less mobility, same dmg when in range.

[Eats Compost]

I'm fine with crap mobility IF we are actually getting something out of it. They touched on that being the fantasy they're going for (strong when in range) but I don't think that it's holding up very well anymore. AMS is a pale imitation of what it once was, and dealing limited damage at range ala Death Coil/Clawing Shadows feels lame when other melee can actually get to their target.

So, gimme more damage, basically.

[NecroSleetstorm]

That's not how balance works.

Then I guess Josh "Lore" Allen from Blizzard is a liar and a fraud.

[RuneDK]

Not sure why people are suddenly up in arms over this, did you just roll a Death Knight last year and think Unholy Presence and Death's Advance were permanent features of the class?

We've always been slow. We have grip and lots of snares, it's kind of our thing. An imposing spectre of death baring down on our enemies etc (lore reasons). At the end of the day, aslong as we're doing competitive DPS (and you can't say we're not) then the only disadvantage is if you're slow to react to mechanics, to which I say: get better.

On MMOC threads are mostly about PvE. With that said, we can't grip bosses. Now going to the pvp side of things....what good is death grip if I believe 9/10 classes have a way to get away from us on a shorter cooldown than death grip is? While you can slow and snare stuff it doesn't really matter if we still can't catch up to them and that's how it is in pvp still.

[Saverem]

I think he meant top dogs in patchwork style dps. Class which has least mobility of all should be (atleast) one of the top dps for a fight which requires no movement.

Another example-

You've got 2 classes, both within 1% of each other patchwork style, and lets say 2% diff in aoe style. The slightly lower dps class is very mobile, the other isn't. Would you call that balanced? Maybe you would, maybe I would. But that is the point many are trying to make.

OK, I can see this.

[Baddok21]

OK, I can see this.

you have been playing for a while? did you not naturally with your own intuition think of that scenario for yourself?

Im not trying to be rude, but it strikes me as awkward such a simple scenario had to be pointed out and that you readily agreed with it.

[Hashcrypt]

These will go a long way towards helping DK mobility, at least in the PvE front: http://www.wowhead.com/item=132443/aggramars-stride

[Saverem]

you have been playing for a while? did you not naturally with your own intuition think of that scenario for yourself?

Im not trying to be rude, but it strikes me as awkward such a simple scenario had to be pointed out and that you readily agreed with it.

No because there is a difference between wanting to do more damage than the other classes and wanting to do more damage than other classes on a static fight. Have YOU been playing for a while or do you not raid?

[Galathir]

Now that I had the cance to play DH I feel this nerf even worse. The qol difference is gigantic.

So now I have the choice between a class that was fun and have a safe raidspot because we need plate dds and a class that is fun but fear for my raidspot because everyone and their mother wears leather.

Thanks Blizzard for this completely unwanted and unneeded nerf.

[frychikn]

i honestly thought my demonhunter felt like shit lol. Cant imagine people actually dropping a whole class for 1 spec. of meh.

[Hashcrypt]

Now that I had the cance to play DH I feel this nerf even worse. The qol difference is gigantic.

So now I have the choice between a class that was fun and have a safe raidspot because we need plate dds and a class that is fun but fear for my raidspot because everyone and their mother wears leather.

Thanks Blizzard for this completely unwanted and unneeded nerf.

Does 15% run speed really determine whether a class is fun or not?

[Coldvibes]

When someone else has 3x the mobility you have while doing the same amount of damage, honestly its not very fun, why would anyone play DKs apart from filling out vanq+plate slot in a raid?