Chicago Police kill unarmed black teenager

[araine]

the most telling thing is the bodycam's all malfunction when the shooting is taking place. really you believe that shit.

[Kellhound]

That's like all these geeks who try to play WoW PvP on a spreadsheet or all the monday morning quarterbacks on ESPN.

oh you could do this and that and then do this and you could have done that and how come you didnt do this but this is what you didn't do and this is what you can do and heres how you can do this and that and blah fucking blah blah

In the heat of the moment these LEOs depend on their training because they have more of a right to go home alive than the scumbag criminals who plague society.

You fire upon the target until the target is destroyed.

You fire until the threat is neutralized. The idea that the police should "destroy" anyone as the primary goal of employing force is troubling at best. Even during war killing neutralized combatants is frowned upon.

[Dextroden]

Except for the fact that I clearly think he should have been tried for assault with a deadly weapon/attempted murder because of the near collision and the collision. Except that.

But sure, you can believe everything continues to be black and white in the world. I'm one of those evul libruls that just hates cops (even if I usually am more likely to lean towards their side) and wants to let minorities get away with all crime. Or something, I'm not sure the reality you've created in your head.

The kind where people knowingly argue down the severity a crime for no good reason. The kind where people argue cops dieing is better and then expect quality officers who want to die for people that hate them and think they are just looking for an excuse to murder them.

I'm going to go back to that real quick. Cops dieing is the "better" option? Who wants to fill that occupation? Especially when you aren't ever allowed to make an error?

[Holofernes]

Or they just really really do not want to be caught.

Is this a black people thing? He got caught already, but somehow his mind was unable to accept it and he still tried to run?

[fengosa]

That's like all these geeks who try to play WoW PvP on a spreadsheet or all the monday morning quarterbacks on ESPN.

oh you could do this and that and then do this and you could have done that and how come you didnt do this but this is what you didn't do and this is what you can do and heres how you can do this and that and blah fucking blah blah

In the heat of the moment these LEOs depend on their training because they have more of a right to go home alive than the scumbag criminals who plague society.

You fire upon the target until the target is destroyed.

No, you don't.

The Chicago PD has already stated the shooting was a violation of policy.

[Pantupino]

play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Kellhound]

Is this a black people thing? He got caught already, but somehow his mind was unable to accept it and he still tried to run?

Nope, not a black thing, plenty of white men do it as well. It just doesnt make as much news when an unarmed white male is shot in the back, and there is always the lower chance the police will fire on a white guy.....

[Cthulhu 2020]

The kind where people knowingly argue down the severity a crime for no good reason. The kind where people argue cops dieing is better and then expect quality officers who want to die for people that hate them and think they are just looking for an excuse to murder them.

I'm going to go back to that real quick. Cops dieing is the "better" option? Who wants to fill that occupation? Especially when you aren't ever allowed to make an error?

How many of us, on this forum, have argued that cops dying is a better option?

I mean... I've even said many times in this thread that if he had been shot while trying to run people over, so be it, he was a clear and immediate threat at that point. That kind of implies that saving lives in that situation is best.

But the police began opening fire in residential area at an unarmed man. In that case they were the ones causing undue danger to innocents.

You lost the argument here, so your only recourse seems to be creating arguments that are morally wrong but you think you can try and thumbtack onto your opponent's argument. Seems like a pretty stupid thing to do tbh.

[Darkeon]

All could be avoided by not stealing other people's propriety and then proceed to nearly ram down officers with said propriety.

Rip in peace, criminal.

[Bapestar]

the most telling thing is the bodycam's all malfunction when the shooting is taking place. really you believe that shit.

Yea, it happens way too often, for it to be a coincidence.

[Edge-]

The kind where people knowingly argue down the severity a crime for no good reason.

To kill someone who is currently unarmed? No, it's not. If he was armed and had been firing at police, I'd have zero problems with the use of lethal force. But as it stood, he had fled his weapon (the car) and was unarmed and on-foot. Because he had committed crimes earlier, included either attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon, that's not an excuse to kill him.

The kind where people argue cops dieing is better and then expect quality officers who want to die for people that hate them and think they are just looking for an excuse to murder them.

I said that? Oh, I didn't, that's neat. I fully support officers right to use deadly force when there is an imminent threat to their lives/safety, they fucking should. But this was not the case here.

I'm going to go back to that real quick. Cops dieing is the "better" option? Who wants to fill that occupation? Especially when you aren't ever allowed to make an error?

Errors happen, but that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for them. If I make a major error at work, I don't just get to "oops" myself out of it, just as cops shouldn't be able to either. I'm aware that cops put themselves at risk on a daily basis and respect the shit out of them for that (fun fact: before my knee went to shit I'd considered being a cop for a while!). But that doesn't mean that I think that there should be no consequences for them if they break with procedure/rules and kill someone who is unarmed and fleeing, even if that person had just committed multiple serious crimes.

[TrumpIsPresident]

No, you don't.
The Chicago PD has already stated the shooting was a violation of policy.

Well yes you do but that's neither here nor there.

I guess CPD figured saying that was better than issuing the whole "room to destroy" statement?

[araine]

Yea, it happens way too often, for it to be a coincidence.

They just shut them off so the evidence of poor police work will not be there.

[Holofernes]

ive never seen a record of a white guy running from police, but i have seen plenty of blacks do this, and than get shot. i (white eurpean) cannot imagen that a person runs away from police after beeing cornered. To me this behaviour is beyond any believability, i cannot imagine how a person that is not full on drugs could come to the idea to run away at gunpoint.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

You support shooting someone in the back as they are running away?

No, I don't but if you think someone has a gun and might use it against you, you have the RIGHT to defend yourself. Even if it means taking a life.

[Edge-]

ive never seen a record of a white guy running from police, but i have seen plenty of blacks do this, and than get shot.

Have you never seen Cops? Because Cops is filled with that, though they rarely ever show instances where suspects are shot/killed.

But, I agree, running from the cops is stupid as hell and usually ends very poorly for the suspect. Don't fucking run from the cops.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

ive never seen a record of a white guy running from police, but i have seen plenty of blacks do this, and than get shot. i (white eurpean) cannot imagen that a person runs away from police after beeing cornered. To me this behaviour is beyond any believability, i cannot imagine how a person that is not full on drugs could come to the idea to run away at gunpoint.

fight or flight kicked in I guess... Some people are desperate others are just fucking dumb.

[Thetruth1400]

I'll note that I realize this will put more officers at greater risk, and likely lead to increased officer fatalities. But that's the price you pay for taking the high road. If you just want cops to be the legally entitled gang that rules the streets with the government's say-so, then by all means, lock and load.

Frankly, I'd rather see 100 "innocent" criminals dead then a single cop just trying to do their job. If people want to commit crime, they better be willing to accept everything that comes with that, and that's potential lethal force from police.

We need to stop trying to sugar coat things and just admit that there are certain problems within the poorer communities that aren't being addressed, especially by the members of those communities. Rampant drugs, violence, illegal activities, and hostility with negative thug / anti-cop attitudes with no in-community activists trying to do anything are the problem. You can throw as many cops into an area without guns that you want, but the criminals in those same areas are loaded down with illegal weapons, and if one of them commits a crime, the vast majority "didn't see anything" because they feel they can handle it on their own or fear for their safety, again, due to the gang mentality that will kill someone for obeying the laws. Fix the communities from within, and fix the problem. As that's not going to happen, lock and load cops, your lives are going to be at risk.

[Dextroden]

To kill someone who is currently unarmed? No, it's not. If he was armed and had been firing at police, I'd have zero problems with the use of lethal force. But as it stood, he had fled his weapon (the car) and was unarmed and on-foot. Because he had committed crimes earlier, included either attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon, that's not an excuse to kill him.



I said that? Oh, I didn't, that's neat. I fully support officers right to use deadly force when there is an imminent threat to their lives/safety, they fucking should. But this was not the case here.



Errors happen, but that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for them. If I make a major error at work, I don't just get to "oops" myself out of it, just as cops shouldn't be able to either. I'm aware that cops put themselves at risk on a daily basis and respect the shit out of them for that (fun fact: before my knee went to shit I'd considered being a cop for a while!). But that doesn't mean that I think that there should be no consequences for them if they break with procedure/rules and kill someone who is unarmed and fleeing, even if that person had just committed multiple serious crimes.

Oh, I'm not against consequences. If you look back at my first post, you'll see this hinges on them actually believing they were fired upon and fuck em if that was their choice of words are to make them look innocent. At worst, if nothing scummy at play, they panicked and made a bad judgement call. Get em for that.

But, nope. Cops are just waiting to shoot black people. And it's always unjustified.

[Barnabas]

I felt like I was watching Cops but not from the point of view of seeing the standoff between the suspect and the police before he was shot.