Why do I suck at building decks? Serious question.

[Necroofeelya]

Title speaks for itself.

I have been playing hearthstone since the alpha. I have not really hardcore played it. Most I do is get on every now and then for 2-3 games, but I feel that is the case because my decks are just utter garbage.

I know some of you will say, "Look on hearthpwn for other deck builds" I totally get that and it does work for a bit since its a meta game and I have to change decks a lot.

However, my question is. How do you come up with these decks? I feel like whenever I come up with a deck that I think is going to work really well. It ends up being utter trash and noting syncs with each other. Its just how I am with card games in general. Even when I first played magic the gathering.

I make a deck I think is so badass, but then when I use it. It just proves me wrong. I look at all of these other players and they have decks that literally every single card they draw has a purpose and syncs with the other cards in their hand like gold.

Where as I, will never have a perfect match up or a reason to build my deck around.

I am just asking for some help. What am I missing? What ability do I lack that does not allow me to make a deck that syncs with itself.

[Socialhealer]

maybe your cards are too reliant on combos? in that case getting cards removed or bad draw can make your game unwinnable.

or too much of a win more situation, you dont need cards that start winning when you're already winning on board, you need cards that turn the table on your opponent.

[Kronik85]

Title speaks for itself.

I have been playing hearthstone since the alpha. I have not really hardcore played it. Most I do is get on every now and then for 2-3 games, but I feel that is the case because my decks are just utter garbage.

I know some of you will say, "Look on hearthpwn for other deck builds" I totally get that and it does work for a bit since its a meta game and I have to change decks a lot.

However, my question is. How do you come up with these decks? I feel like whenever I come up with a deck that I think is going to work really well. It ends up being utter trash and noting syncs with each other. Its just how I am with card games in general. Even when I first played magic the gathering.

I make a deck I think is so badass, but then when I use it. It just proves me wrong. I look at all of these other players and they have decks that literally every single card they draw has a purpose and syncs with the other cards in their hand like gold.

Where as I, will never have a perfect match up or a reason to build my deck around.

I am just asking for some help. What am I missing? What ability do I lack that does not allow me to make a deck that syncs with itself.

Very few people build top tier decks, what most of us do is net deck shells and change the flex slots depending on what the meta is looking like. So in any archetype there is 26-28 "core" cards which will always be in that list and thenthat leaves 2-4 flex slots which get swapped around with a few cards.

[Dalinos]

Title speaks for itself.

I have been playing hearthstone since the alpha. I have not really hardcore played it. Most I do is get on every now and then for 2-3 games, but I feel that is the case because my decks are just utter garbage.

I know some of you will say, "Look on hearthpwn for other deck builds" I totally get that and it does work for a bit since its a meta game and I have to change decks a lot.

However, my question is. How do you come up with these decks? I feel like whenever I come up with a deck that I think is going to work really well. It ends up being utter trash and noting syncs with each other. Its just how I am with card games in general. Even when I first played magic the gathering.

I make a deck I think is so badass, but then when I use it. It just proves me wrong. I look at all of these other players and they have decks that literally every single card they draw has a purpose and syncs with the other cards in their hand like gold.

Where as I, will never have a perfect match up or a reason to build my deck around.

I am just asking for some help. What am I missing? What ability do I lack that does not allow me to make a deck that syncs with itself.

There are various things you should be thinking about when building a deck (in any type of card game).

1) What's your game plan?
2) How will you not lose?
3) How will you win?

From then on, if those 3 questions are answered, it's a matter of choosing the right cards for the job.

As an example, you decide to make an Overload Shaman deck. You type in the "search" field "overload", so all overload cards will show up. The options are many, including stuff like Forked Lightning. For an amateur, forked lightning might seem like a decent card, if not a good card. For an experienced player, forked lightning is mediocre at best, downright bad at worst.

Like others said, there are around 20+ CORE cards in a deck, the rest is pretty much up to the meta/to you. Hope this helped!

[Nikkaszal]

I'll fill you in on the number one secret of deck building:

Know your rank area's meta

A given deck needs to be adaptible, flexible, and tailored to provide the maximum chance of success vs the majoroty of decks that you yourself are facing. Are you up against a ton of shamen/warriors? Ooze or Harrison should be an auto-include in almost any deck you create. Then hypothetically, you rank up a couple and most of your opponents are druids/mages/warlocks - that Ooze which treated you so well is now going to be a dead card a lot of the time. Take it out and tech in something else.

You should be constantly tinkering with a deck. Don't try and force something to work if it's not going well. Example - I made a Yogg Rogue deck purely to try and find a use for Thistle Tea. I like the card, and I WANTED it to work, and I figured this would be the best deck type for it. However, after a couple games it quickly became apparent that it doesn't, so rather than shuffle stuff around in the deck to make TT a little better, I just cut my losses and tossed it.

The second most important part of deckbuilding is have a win condition. Using the above example of my Rogue'Saron - I packed a deck with spells, Pillager, Auctioneer and Drake and then tossed Yogg in. Then I remembered that Yogg is NOT a win condition; he's a second-chance turn around play. Can't rely on him to win games. So I threw in Maly, Sinister Strikes and Thaurissan and BAM - that's a win condition. That's something to work to that will win games for me as I control the board and hold Yogg for YOLO plays.

Deckbuilding does not mean you have to come up with a brand new idea never seen before in the game (eg you don't need to be the pioneer of the next Patron or Handlock, examples of very specific card interactions that ended up being wildly powerful). There's no shame in seeing what works with other decks and adapting a general idea into your own. The fun comes with fleshing out that idea with your own flavour.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, one last thing:

Don't try and counter every single deck you can

This is something I see a lot with my newer mates - they try their hand at deckbuilding, then they add some tech to counter aggro, some to counter fatigue, some to counter secrets etc etc.

Don't do this. Your deck should counter the most common threats you face, and outliers just need to be foregone. If you're building a hyper-aggressive Warrior, you don't want to include SB+SS x 2 just because it's so good at mid/late removal; all you're doing is wasting deck slots that could otherwise be filled with cards that get you closer to your win condition. So long as you maintain a positive win rate, that's all that matters. There is not a single deck that will counter everything, you need to be selective.

[Yunzi]

Ask yourself why you're losing, and then work in a card(s) that counters that or change to a class that counters it. Here's an example - I was losing consistently to Zoolocks with my Midrange Shaman deck. So I asked myself what's a good counter to Zoolock available to Shaman, and chose Lightning Storm. Two Lightning Storm inclusions into the deck later, my winning percentage against Zoolocks went up about 20%. But also bear in mind how those inclusions (and what you dropped from the deck to make room for them) *hurts* you against other decks to form an overall evaluation.

Very few players are expert deck builders. I commonly go to Hearthpwn to see what the experts are doing, and have learned a lot from that.

[Tenris]

Everyone else has stated some very good points and things to help so I wont add to that, however it would help if you showed us a few of your decks to see where you are going wrong. I've made a midrange paladin for wild and it is absolutely amazing and destroys everything because its so well balanced and has an answer for everything.

[zinfandel]

The most common problem is hedging your bets as to what kind of deck it is. Be clear in your own mind if its agro/ control/ whatever and fully commit to that. Any synergy deck will always have games where none of the synergies come up and they look terrible, and some games where they all come up and it looks godlike. Hearthstone only lends itself so far to synergy decks as there isn't much card draw, and only a few card types that have the critical mass (dragons - yes, murlocs - maybe, pirates - not really , mechs - not any more etc etc). Synergy decks are the weakest type in hearthstone - if they weren't my shaman windfury & silence deck would be the boss - unfortunately it's a bit pants.

Also, sadly, so many people are playing the very best decks and have practised them endlessly so that to turn up with something new and expect it to win the first few games is unrealistic. Its worth sticking with something you have made for 30-50 games before you know if it is any good.

[Nikkaszal]

Also, sadly, so many people are playing the very best decks and have practised them endlessly so that to turn up with something new and expect it to win the first few games is unrealistic. Its worth sticking with something you have made for 30-50 games before you know if it is any good.

Actually, against that:

Most players who know the meta and are using meta decks only really know how to play AGAINST the meta. Curveballs are often harder to play against because your opponent is unlikely to know what you're packing to prepare answers for it (eg vs a pirate aggro warrior I could pick at least 25 cards they're likely to have as soon as I see a turn 1 First Mate, and immediately adjust my strategy to best counter what I now know for certain is pirate warrior).

Example being Yogg Mage - when this expac first came out I did what most people did and just made a tempo deck with Yogg in it. I soon adapted this idea into a Reno deck, and before this became more commonplace people were NEVER expecting it. You'd see other mages or hunters or shamen or C'thun decks unload hard on face to pop Ice Block, expecting a kill next turn, only to run their board straight into Frost Nova (or Poly for Cthun) and Reno, to be cleared next turn.

[Necroofeelya]

I'll fill you in on the number one secret of deck building:

Know your rank area's meta

A given deck needs to be adaptible, flexible, and tailored to provide the maximum chance of success vs the majoroty of decks that you yourself are facing. Are you up against a ton of shamen/warriors? Ooze or Harrison should be an auto-include in almost any deck you create. Then hypothetically, you rank up a couple and most of your opponents are druids/mages/warlocks - that Ooze which treated you so well is now going to be a dead card a lot of the time. Take it out and tech in something else.

You should be constantly tinkering with a deck. Don't try and force something to work if it's not going well. Example - I made a Yogg Rogue deck purely to try and find a use for Thistle Tea. I like the card, and I WANTED it to work, and I figured this would be the best deck type for it. However, after a couple games it quickly became apparent that it doesn't, so rather than shuffle stuff around in the deck to make TT a little better, I just cut my losses and tossed it.

The second most important part of deckbuilding is have a win condition. Using the above example of my Rogue'Saron - I packed a deck with spells, Pillager, Auctioneer and Drake and then tossed Yogg in. Then I remembered that Yogg is NOT a win condition; he's a second-chance turn around play. Can't rely on him to win games. So I threw in Maly, Sinister Strikes and Thaurissan and BAM - that's a win condition. That's something to work to that will win games for me as I control the board and hold Yogg for YOLO plays.

Deckbuilding does not mean you have to come up with a brand new idea never seen before in the game (eg you don't need to be the pioneer of the next Patron or Handlock, examples of very specific card interactions that ended up being wildly powerful). There's no shame in seeing what works with other decks and adapting a general idea into your own. The fun comes with fleshing out that idea with your own flavour.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, one last thing:

Don't try and counter every single deck you can

This is something I see a lot with my newer mates - they try their hand at deckbuilding, then they add some tech to counter aggro, some to counter fatigue, some to counter secrets etc etc.

Don't do this. Your deck should counter the most common threats you face, and outliers just need to be foregone. If you're building a hyper-aggressive Warrior, you don't want to include SB+SS x 2 just because it's so good at mid/late removal; all you're doing is wasting deck slots that could otherwise be filled with cards that get you closer to your win condition. So long as you maintain a positive win rate, that's all that matters. There is not a single deck that will counter everything, you need to be selective.

This was extremely helpful and I thank you for taking the time to write this up! The meta game really has been a major flaw of mine and its been a mind block getting myself to adapt it. I was always afraid of changing out a card to replace with a card that could increase my win chance against a hero, but then getting another hero and needing that card I got rid of. The possibility of that happening is real. However, like you stated. This is the whole point to deck tweeks. As I said, I have never really got into card games. Probably because of the meta game that comes with it.
Especially in Alpha hearthstone. I literally ran the same warlock deck for ranks upon ranks without changing a single thing. I just wanted to be able to build a single deck that would last ranks and beat it all. Realistically, this dream of mine is impossible hahah I just really need to practice my meta game capabilities. Instead of scrapping a whole deck, I will for sure start swapping out specific cards.

The most common problem is hedging your bets as to what kind of deck it is. Be clear in your own mind if its agro/ control/ whatever and fully commit to that. Any synergy deck will always have games where none of the synergies come up and they look terrible, and some games where they all come up and it looks godlike. Hearthstone only lends itself so far to synergy decks as there isn't much card draw, and only a few card types that have the critical mass (dragons - yes, murlocs - maybe, pirates - not really , mechs - not any more etc etc). Synergy decks are the weakest type in hearthstone - if they weren't my shaman windfury & silence deck would be the boss - unfortunately it's a bit pants.

This is for sure another issue I have. I wanted every deck I had to have this perfect little synergy because I thought that was how the game worked. If you didnt have a synergy deck, you were nothing. The more I play and the more cards that are released. I see that not everything has to synergize together to work together.

[patseguin]

I've often asked myself the same question. Whenever I keep facing the same decks over and over in the meta, I try to make a deck that counters it really well. Then magically when I make a deck that counters those decks, I magically won't ever face them again.

[Necroofeelya]

I've often asked myself the same question. Whenever I keep facing the same decks over and over in the meta, I try to make a deck that counters it really well. Then magically when I make a deck that counters those decks, I magically won't ever face them again.

Glad to see I am not the only one hahaha