Fertility Rates Drop to Lowest Level Measured in the US, Says the CDC

[TrumpIsPresident]

I want to see the data filtered by income and by ethnicity.

I bet it would show that birthrates for certain income levels and certain ethnicities are not down at all.

[Wolfheart9]

My wife's retirement alone will be greater than that alone. We aren't independently wealthy. Just responsible.

Must be nice to of been able to put aside half a million dollars without any help at all.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I want to see the data filtered by income and by ethnicity.

I bet it would show that birthrates for certain income levels and certain ethnicities are not down at all.

The theory though is that within a generation or two they'll be elevated to a similar income/cultural standing and they won't reproduce the same as their parents before them. So no matter what, until the country as a whole has a huge cultural and economic shift, there is nothing stopping this decline - not even unhindered immigration.

[I Push Buttons]

.. what? A proper parent doesn't want to bring up a kid without having the income or the means to properly raise them, that's understandable. Why jump straight to assuming they want everything paid for?

Well parents already get:
Tax subsidies for having a kid.
Maternity Leave (even Paternity leave in some places).
Guaranteed job when they get back from maternity leave.
Health insurance from their employer despite not working.
Etc.

The thing they (parents) want now is paid maternity leave, they not only want to take a year off from work at their employers expense (with regard to insurance), but to be fully paid during it as well... (Which the business will inevitably require government assistance to cover). All while the business has to hire, train, insure, etc., a replacement that is then redundant when the parent decides to return to work.

So if all they already get isn't enough (all of which is paid for/subsidized by the government)... Then what more is there beyond fully paying for everything?

[Wolfheart9]

The theory though is that within a generation or two they'll be elevated to a similar income/cultural standing and they won't reproduce the same as their parents before them.

And as I mentioned earlier, those generations could have a house, 2 cars, 3 kids, big yard, and live very very comfortably with one parent in a factory and the other as a typist, both unskilled labor. Can't do that now.

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Well parents already get:
Tax subsidies for having a kid.
Maternity Leave (even Paternity leave in some places).
Guaranteed job when they get back from maternity leave.
Health insurance from their employer despite not working.
Etc.

The thing they (parents) want now is paid maternity leave, they not only want to take a year off from work at their employers expense (with regard to insurance), but to be fully paid during it as well... (Which the business will inevitably require government assistance to cover). All while the business has to hire, train, insure, etc., a replacement that is then redundant when the parent decides to return to work.

So if all they already get isn't enough (all of which is paid for/subsidized by the government)... Then what more is there beyond fully paying for everything?

Income that matches what their parents or parents' parents had in relation to costs of living for the same amount of work?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

And as I mentioned earlier, those generations could have a house, 2 cars, 3 kids, big yard, and live very very comfortably with one parent in a factory and the other as a typist, both unskilled labor. Can't do that now.

Well, let's be fair. That's also the byproduct of basically having the world by its metaphorical balls. Chances are, we're never going back towards those living standards again. In fact, we'd be a lot better off trying to adapt and actually re-engineer our way of thinking/perceiving the modern world. We tend to look backwards, rather than forwards, and this in of itself is a problem because what happened then cannot be repeated in many cases. It's done. It's over.

[Wolfheart9]

Well, let's be fair. That's also the byproduct of basically having the world by its metaphorical balls. Chances are, we're never going back towards those living standards again. In fact, we'd be a lot better off trying to adapt and actually re-engineer our way of thinking/perceiving the modern world. We tend to look backwards, rather than forwards, and this in of itself is a problem because what happened then cannot be repeated in many cases. It's done. It's over.

And things change because of it, such as not having as many children as not as many families can support them as well as their parents could in the exact same situation. That's the point I'm getting at. It's rather easy to see why people aren't popping out kids like they used to.

[Maconi]

Kids are out of the question for me and my wife. There's just no time to raise them properly ourselves and we don't have enough money to pay for supplementary child care. Most other responsible adults are in the same situation. If you're lucky enough to live near retired family members they can help out but that's another rarity in this day-and-age.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This isn't a bad thing. The planet is overcrowded as it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_ratio

[MasterOfNone]

Do you not agree that huge numbers of people don't even make enough money to live comfortably in their "youth," let alone make enough money to support themselves in their old age?

I use quotes with "youth" as I don't mean young, I just mean, not elderly.

Accepting responsibility for your life and changing your future is YOUR responsibility. Not anyone else's. Making good decisions is on you. If your life has poor consequences, the majority of the time, it's because your poor choices.

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Must be nice to of been able to put aside half a million dollars without any help at all.

It's discipline. Every paycheck money is set aside. Not exactly impressive or un-common.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

And things change because of it, such as not having as many children as not as many families can support them as well as their parents could in the exact same situation. That's the point I'm getting at. It's rather easy to see why people aren't popping out kids like they used to.

Right and that responsibility should not fall upon the young. The old have had their time, their opportunities. Hell, within far better economic climates than us.

I would take care of my parents and grandparents if need be. I would not let them fall to the wayside, regardless of their decisions in life. That's what family does.

However, it is not X or Y's responsibility to help my family and that's something we're going to have to learn to accept. We'd be better off putting that money into healthcare and education, as that can front-load our youth with opportunities and advantages that then can translate into better reproduction in the long run. Right now we're putting most if not all of our money on a non-viable section of our economy rather than helping to empower that which will give us most for our investment.

This is what I mean about adapting and adaptation can be rather cruel but also necessary. You aren't owed shit because you managed to get to old age. We need something in return and we get that by elevating and empowering people who can make a difference.

[Astronom]

This isn't a bad thing. The planet is overcrowded as it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_ratio

So you want to see the US population grow fairly rapidly forever, to the billions, then tens of billions, and beyond, just so the dependency ratio doesn't become unfavorable?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

So you want to see the US population grow fairly rapidly forever, to the billions, then tens of billions, and beyond, just so the dependency ratio doesn't become unfavorable?

I think ideally we'd like to see things level off and come to a balance.

[Aeula]

Meh. The less screachers the better.

[Wolfheart9]

So you want to see the US population grow fairly rapidly forever, to the billions, then tens of billions, and beyond, just so the dependency ratio doesn't become unfavorable?

Nah, most people just want old people to die, or to work until they're 90, or to somehow save up half a million dollars which is apparently so common, we shouldn't have any issue with people not doing it.... Oh wait..

Has nothing to do with some CEOs making more than some countries do and the lower tier being the most underpaid in comparison of almost any civilized country. Nothing like that, it's the old people's fault.

[Culex]

That is a common response, but actually it is a bad thing because it has a crippling effect on economies and the ability of governments to function.

Less young people means less taxes to take care of the elderly, less consumer spending/less demand and so less jobs, less over all productivity, ect.

Our planet isn't overcrowded because of too much breeding but indeed because far too many elderly cling to life. Humans have simply stopped dying like flies.

Sounds like its time to adopt a similiar custom as the one planet in star trek tng where people aged 60 off themselves.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Nah, most people just want old people to die, or to work until they're 90, or to somehow save up half a million dollars which is apparently so common, we shouldn't have any issue with people not doing it.... Oh wait..

Has nothing to do with some CEOs making more than some countries do and the lower tier being the most underpaid in comparison of almost any civilized country. Nothing like that, it's the old people's fault.

So? What are you going to do about it? Tell them they'd bad people in the hopes that they'll suddenly grow a conscience?

[Wolfheart9]

So? What are you going to do about it? Tell them they'd bad people in the hopes that they'll suddenly grow a conscience?

About the same as telling people that the average joe can easily save up enough money to retire without aid (which btw, includes companies matching your retirement plan, not all places do), because no one ever gets cancer, has their spouse die or leave, has sudden misfortunes that they couldn't possibly prepare for, all those good things.

[Deleted]

Our civilisation wouldn't last forever anyway. It's more favorable anyway to stop producing more vermin and kinda slide slowly and gently into long-due oblivion than to fuck and breed like dumb animals until we realize we have zero resources, the planet is dead and now we have nothing more to do. I mean, there are 8 billion people, 60% once-arable land we've somehow managed to destroy, we're killing other species at a rate sufficient to consider the modern age a great extinction event.

Have we perhaps, by this point, had fucking enough?

Aaaand I cut my finger on all this edge, brb bandaid.

Still true tho.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think ideally we'd like to see things level off and come to a balance.

This.

A super low dependency ratio basically means all of our government programs supporting the young and the old get fucked, and people have to start paying for their grandparents AND children to live, like China is facing right now.

A super high ratio is nice, like the US had with the boomers, but it eventually means you're going to hit a slump in the ratio as well. A balanced dependency ratio is ideal.