The Zerg Swarm vs The Burning Legion. Who would win?

[derpkitteh]

if he could have he would have. he is the better safe then sorry type after all.

he doesn't want to destroy azeroth. he wants to corrupt her to fel, because he's seen into her eyes and seems to now possibly be in love with her.

[TheFirstOnes]

if he could have he would have. he is the better safe then sorry type after all.

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it would't be very hard for them to locate argus and just fly there. they don't need portals for fast travel.

Idk, But after looking at that Sargeras X Azeroth thing during the scepter of sargeras AK knowledge red, I feel as if he doesn't want to go to azeroth at full force, because...well, he was enraptured by her. No, really. He saw a little vision of her, peaking 1 eye towards him, and he was ENRAPTURED by her. And Azeroth should ATLEAST be in her teen stages, yes? So....uhhh...

This begs the question, is sargeras a pedo? Or Does Space have no cops? Or is sargeras so powerful, as for him to do whatever the fuck he wants, including the sexual corruption/Absorbion of Either the titan's powers, or the slumbering titan herself?

I fear him...And I have an ashbringer, and a legendary. No one ever scared me before. He's my first...

[derpkitteh]

What I ment is that if the Zergs enter the portal the Legion was using... but I guess in they case the survive the Invasion and managed to create an army to counterattack then yes I suppose It would take them a while to find Argus and they would never find a way to get to the Twisting Nether since is in another dimension only accessible by portal aka magic.

argus isn't in the nether. it's part of the universe.

argus however, is not essential to the legion. man'ari are now demons, their soul would go to nether upon death now. so it doesn't really matter what happens to argus. it's simply the throne of kil'jaedan now, which is its importance to us in the story.

[Leyre]

lets see, creatures made of flesh and bones, vs a creature made of stone covered in fire

[derpkitteh]

Idk, But after looking at that Sargeras X Azeroth thing during the scepter of sargeras AK knowledge red, I feel as if he doesn't want to go to azeroth at full force, because...well, he was enraptured by her. No, really. He saw a little vision of her, peaking 1 eye towards him, and he was ENRAPTURED by her. And Azeroth should ATLEAST be in her teen stages, yes? So....uhhh...

This begs the question, is sargeras a pedo? Or Does Space have no cops? Or is sargeras so powerful, as for him to do whatever the fuck he wants, including the sexual corruption/Absorbion of Either the titan's powers, or the slumbering titan herself?

I fear him...And I have an ashbringer, and a legendary. No one ever scared me before. He's my first...

i doubt she has childlike features.

we have no real idea of titan mental development, either. they coalesce as a planet and i think are considered "born" at that start, but they must mature until they have the power to fully form.

so, maybe she is at a childlike stage. she's very very scared right now, we know that and that's literally all we know from her sadly. that could point to her being childlike, or maybe not. but i don't picture a grown woman behaving in a scared way like that. i could picture her asking for help, but magni seems to emphasize her actual fear.

[Dasani]

Yeah I... Honestly don't know why this debate is even continuing. An army of trillions that can slice up tanks and aircraft made of future metal alloys vs an army of about a million or two demons that can die by getting stabbed by sharp objects, arrows, and punched to death.

Are you guys just trolling or has any sense of reason or logic evaded your grasps? :P

Magic and Sargeras are the only factors involved here and I don't think legion magic is sufficiently strong enough to take out the swarm. The legion has attacked azeroth a number of times at this point and their magics haven't been able to defeat armies numbering in the hundreds/thousands wearing plate armor AT BEST, typically much less than plate. They aren't going to be able to stop the zerg. There's too many and they are relatively speaking far more durable and more dangerous.

So if the legion's full scale wars on Azeroth have failed each time and they can't defeat two dozen "heroes" or armies of a few hundred to a few thousand, all armed with primitive weapons and defenses, how do you imagine they would stand even the slightest glimpse of a chance against a swarm numbering in the trillions with each individual planet under their control hosting several billion.

The legion "can't be defeated"? Are you kidding me? Have you guys ever played this game at all? Legion gets their shit wrecked constantly. They have primitive ass bombs in hellfire peninsula that you can drop from a gryphon that can kill a dozen of them at a time. The fact they respawn "eventually" does not matter. There are too many zerg and they outclass the legion far too much. As I said before, they'd wipe them out and then effectively spawn camp them and massacre them every time they popped back up.

The fun fact is, even IF sargeras were involved, he still couldn't win. Even if you assume he could wipe out all zerg on a planet so quickly they didn't have time to rebuild on other parts of the planet (which is a stretch), as soon as he left to head to the next planet, zerg would re-infest the shit out of the planet he just cleansed of them and be back up to their full numbers before he could destroy everything on the next planet. He'd be chasing his own tail for eternity, unable to wipe them out because they just multiply too quickly. It's one of their defining characteristics.

Also, Sargeras would never be able to get involved anyway. For all of the "big" demons like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, it takes the legion showing up on the planet and already establishing a foothold to construct a gigantic ass portal big enough to allow them through. The portal to summon sargeras is even more massive and requires enormous amounts of power. Lots of WOW lore is based around these facts. They'd never get the chance to even summon the larger legion members in the first place before being overwhelmed. Trying to summon Sargeras would be outside the realm of possibility. There's only, what, one place in all of Azeroth that even had enough power to summon him and that was the well of eternity. Infest the area, protect it from demons, boom. No sargeras.

But like I said, even if he did manage his way on the battlefield, his absolute best case scenario is just cleansing one planet, then he is stuck on that planet unable to be summoned anywhere else. And if he Thors his way through space to another planet somehow, even if that travel were instantaneous which obviously it isn't because then they wouldn't need to go through the MASSIVE amounts of trouble and many, many, many years of plotting and planning to try to bring about his summoning on Azeroth, even then, he still couldnt kill zerg faster than they reproduce. It just isn't possible, there are too many.

This isn't a fight the Legion can ever win. Every member of them would get wiped out by the zerg that grossly outclass them in combat, except presumably Sargeras, but his best case scenario would be an eternal stalemate on HIS end, where he'd have to dedicate the entirety of his existence to wiping out zerg infested worlds, meanwhile the swarm could continue business as usual and not worry about him at all except after he finishes cleansing a world, soon as he leaves they just go repopulate it.

It is an unwinnable scenario for the legion. You have to pretend that their magic is somehow far stronger than it actually is or that they are somehow tougher and more powerful than they actually are, to even try to make it a contest. But physics say zerg cut through them like tissue paper and legion weapons except for the very biggest ones are likely to not harm zerg at all. Legion Magic isn't good enough. Whether you look at Warcraft 3 where armies of humans in primitive armor with primitive weapons actually fought the legion, or examine actual legion spells used in WOW, or even just legion magic used in any of those shitty books, they have nothing powerful enough to contend with infinite waves of zerg washing over them. Something like Rain of Fire is about their best bet, and it can't even kill HUMANS instantly and doesn't cover that large of an area.

Nope, nope, nope. You have to flat out lie to yourself to think the legion can win. :P

And as a final thought experiment, lets give someone like Archimonde the benefit of the doubt and say that he is soooo powerful zerg could only do 1 point of damage to him while he can 1-shot them a dozen at a time. Even in that scenario, he still loses. Thousands of zerg descending on him? There's just nothing you can do about something like that. I killed him countless times in a group of 25 dudes with pointy sticks. I can just imagine zerg swarming over the walls of that place and just consuming him.

That is why the zerg basically win every "lore" battle in Starcraft. Once they get on a planet the protoss blow the fucking planet up because it's a lost cause. The only time they ever manage to retake a planet from the zerg is when they use a Plot Device weapon like a xel'naga keystone that just wipes out all of them on a planet at once.

Also, just cause. Have some perspective:

[Deleted]

What I ment is that if the Zergs enter the portal the Legion was using... but I guess in they case the survive the Invasion and managed to create an army to counterattack then yes I suppose It would take them a while to find Argus and they would never find a way to get to the Twisting Nether since is in another dimension only accessible by portal aka magic.

Zerg are a spacefaring race. They have dozens of ways of finding argus with the information you provided. Then they'd simply pick up and leave if for w/e reason the battle went poorly. The legion wouldn't be able to track of follow them with their level of space tech.

Then the legion would start seeing invasions the likes of which they dream of being capable off on w/e places the zerg found.

The problem the legion has is that it requires infrastructure to travel fast between worlds, especially in large and/or powerful groups. once this infrastructure in terms of portals or portal capable mages is eroded, they are pushed back into the twisting nether and stop being a large scale threat to the material realm.

[Darsey]

If we count in Kerigod, then zerg. They will even find a way to kill them in the void, I mean, twisting nether.

[scrangos]

It might be a stalemate depending on god-kerrigan vs sargeras. If sargeras is stronger then stalemate as someone before mentioned, the burning legion is too slow to deal with zerg spreading endlessly. Even if the planets are destroyed it would take a long ass time for sargeras personally to wipe out ALL planets. At that point zerg might be powerful enough to actually make their own planets.

The demons of the legion dont stand a chance against the zerg, their ships are mediocre and the zerg can do orbital bombardment of troops that have no real way to retaliate. Itd be a onesided slaughter. With the overlord coverage and zerg swarms not to mention the fact they cant be bribed like most races are in order to establish a portal/foothold the only way to invade a zerg world is by ship very very slow ships. And in space those ships dont seem to have enough firepower to deal with the zerg leaving the war to be a defensive one for the legion since they cant reach zerg planets... and they cant even retaliate to orbital bombardments when under siege.

The burning legion would be toast, itd just be Sargeras and thats not a legion anymore.

Now the old gods might actually be interesting, since they are mind (psionic based) they might be able to easely subvert overlords and with them the zerg. Kerrigan is probably stronger though and would mentally lobotomize them when she notices though.

[Aquamonkey]

[TheFirstOnes]

@Dasani

1. Gameplay Doesn't Equal Lore.

2. It takes them a LONG time to fight for 1 city, while archimonde did this with sand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BxvHhz4XQ

3. We're Mortals that Took up legendary blades, got buffed by by LEGENDARY gods, and as of now, are using essences of the pantheon to deal MASSIVE damage against the legion. And even with such power, even with the capability of wealding weapons that could destroy worlds, it'll still take us over 300 wipes just to kill a KJ. Or, Lore wise, it'll take us a LONG ass time just to bring KJ to around 100% might.

4. The player's seem to be non-cannon from within the lore. Infact, Lore wise, we're just an army of hundreds of people, with other major lore-characters being the main peeps to save the day. While, in game, we're special snowflakes, wielding godly energies...

[Kaleredar]

Also, just cause. Have some perspective:

Perspective?

[TheFirstOnes]

Idk. Azeroth seems to be in her teenage years in this type of stage. I could see blizzard pulling a sailor moon with this type of development, while pulling a transformers/DBZ (OR DBS) with sargeras. Making him a unicron like god, with a BADASS weapon, With Frieza's Tyranny/Beerus' Might within him...

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i doubt she has childlike features.

we have no real idea of titan mental development, either. they coalesce as a planet and i think are considered "born" at that start, but they must mature until they have the power to fully form.

so, maybe she is at a childlike stage. she's very very scared right now, we know that and that's literally all we know from her sadly. that could point to her being childlike, or maybe not. but i don't picture a grown woman behaving in a scared way like that. i could picture her asking for help, but magni seems to emphasize her actual fear.

I see this as like a teenager getting scared of a horror movie monster, while we're here going "Don't Worry. I'll save you", while pulling a superman.

I don't care if my little planet gal does get raped or not. As long as these guys have AP, legendaries, or Epics, THEN COUNT ME IN!

[roi]

Once Abathur adapts the strongest legion traits, spins new strands and sequences to evolve the swarm, the legion is done for.

[Nighelf]

@Dasani

3. We're Mortals that Took up legendary blades, got buffed by by LEGENDARY gods, and as of now, are using essences of the pantheon to deal MASSIVE damage against the legion. And even with such power, even with the capability of wealding weapons that could destroy worlds, it'll still take us over 300 wipes just to kill a KJ. Or, Lore wise, it'll take us a LONG ass time just to bring KJ to around 100% might.

4. The player's seem to be non-cannon from within the lore. Infact, Lore wise, we're just an army of hundreds of people, with other major lore-characters being the main peeps to save the day. While, in game, we're special snowflakes, wielding godly energies...

If we are gonna state gameplay as lore facts, we are not mortals, we are immortal demigods that can respawn instantly, run back and fight again. We can make our enemy oblivious to our presence so we have perma steath until we are really close to them, and we have some sort of magic that prevents them from attacking us unless we choose to approach them. We also have killed many amon/kerriggan level begins in the past with less power.

I alone seem to remember defeating the zerg multiple times, since i am a player and they exists for me to kill.

[Deleted]

Burning Legion.

Fire would purge everything!

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

Depends on the kind of war.

In a war to dominate the Korprulu sector the Zerg would stomp. The Zerg have FTL, hell, the Zerg have space travel full stop, while the Burning Legion require a forerunner to open up a portal at their destination for them to actually reach it. Should said portal be destroyed, all Legion reinforcements are cut off. Zerg easily outmaneuver the Legion, cut them off from the Nether with orbital strikes at their portals and whittle them down planet by planet.

In a war contained within a single planet the Legion might fare better as the Zerg don't have the option to build their hives outside of the Legion's reach on nearby unoccupied worlds.

In a war in the Nether, Sargeras farts and the Zerg are toasted.

[Kokolums]

The Zerg probably just throw 900 quadrillion scourge at Sagreras and wind up infesting him. Game over.

[Dasani]

Perspective?

Once again. It doesn't mean anything. Even if he went around cleaving planets in half, it doesn't matter at all. Zerg can survive and breed just fine in space. They don't require atmospheres or habitable living conditions. Even if sargeras cleaved a planet into millions of pieces, those pieces are still going to exist. The gravity of those large masses are going to pull them back together into an unstable hellscape of a world and the zerg would still be able to thrive on it just fine. Sargeras cannot actually destroy matter.

And even if he could, it still wouldn't make him a winner. He would still lose every ground war. He'd have to destroy every planet in existence to wipe out the zerg. Then he would rule over nothingness. He'd get pretty lonely and sad and realize fighting the zerg was a really, really stupid decision because now he has nothing to do until the end of time except sit around and regret being so stupid.

And you have the "how does sargeras get around" problem. Zerg can travel through space pretty damn quick. FTL speeds. They can go from planet to planet in hours/days. Sargeras can't do that. Every time he dicks his way onto a world, it's because they went through this massive, convoluted summoning ritual that required immense levels of power and time to prepare and do properly to bring him there. If he could actually travel through space without that in any reasonable length of time, he would've done so already. Instead, he's been trying to get his dick into azeroth for over 10,000 years and still hasn't managed it.

You guys talk and act like sargeras is some omnipotent badass, but he's really not. He has failed every single attack on Azeroth. He keeps trying to get here and failing. Archimonde was killed by wisps. Then again by 25 dudes. Then again by 25 dudes. Archimonde is the 3rd strongest guy in the entire legion and he drops like a bad habit. Kil'jaeden won't be that much stronger (who has also been defeated by 25 dudes, whines of "NOT FULL POWER" not withstanding, most of his body was hanging out of that portal).

The legion just cannot properly move it's army around or field it's more powerful members efficiently.

In any realistic scenario, the zerg simply cannot be defeated. Even if, by some miracle of archimonde + kil'jaeden + sargeras nonsense that they managed to kill all of them on a single planet, there simply aren't enough members of the legion to leave on that planet to KEEP it secure and prevent another infestation. They would have to move all of their forces to take each planet and be unable to actually hold the planet once taken. They simply cannot win because there aren't enough of them, nevermind the fact they are drastically weaker than zerg physically and structurally.

New York City has 8 million people living in it. That is more than 4 times the population of the entire burning legion. And their quantity is canon. Imagine how small new york city is compared to the world at large, and imagine a military that tiny trying to maintain control over an entire planet. It simply couldn't be done.

I don't think you people grasp the numbers or the realities of this situation.

Let's consider population density for a moment. I'm not sure exact land mass measurements have been given for azeroth so i'll use the real world as an exmaple because those numbers actually exist.

With the legion's CANON population sitting at 2,000,000... That gives them a population density of 0.0345 demon per square mile. Think about that for a minute. Not quite 3 and a half fucking demon, every 100 square miles. Zerg population on the other hand is theoretically in the trillions but I won't even need to speculateor use common sense or guesswork, i'll simply just use hard, confirmed numbers given in the lore. Population of the planet Char is around 10 billion in the year 2504.

So if all of those zerg, JUST on that one fucking planet, moved to earth, their population density is going to be about 172.4 zerg per square mile.

SO stop and think about those numbers for a minute. Try to wrap your brains around that. For every 100 square miles on the earth, you' dhave 17,240 zerg tearing the fuck out of 3 and a half demons. I mean, are you people seriously even entertaining the possibility that the legion can win? Really? Even if the zerg didn't so grossly, overwhelmingly overpower them with being harder to kill and having more damaging attacks, they are just way, way, way too outnumbered. Even if only one tenth of a single percentage of the zerg were ultralisks, that still means over 17 ultralisks that can simply crush them to death without even having to attack vs not quite 3 and a half demons.

The numbers is where the zerg win so categorically. Even if you ignore the fact they are far more resilient and more damaging and threatening in combat to the point where one zergling would be stronger than most of the demons in burning legion, just the numbers alone have zerg winning.

And you might think of something dumb like "well they wouldnt be that spread out", but it doesn't matter because if they were concentrated in a single point, the zerg could surround and attack that point from all sides. Know anything about military tactics? You know how overwhelmingly fucked you are trying to defend against all sides at once? Even if you were to assume they were roughly equivalent in strength by ignoring all of the physics behind everything we know about both groups, and having it lean heavily in the legion's favor, it simply wouldn't matter. There's just too many zerg.

And again, sargeras can't stop them without blowing up every planet in the universe which is something he either can't or won't do. Any way you look at it, it's a no-win scenario for the legion. And they can respawn from now till the end of time, but those overwhelming odds against them will never change and in fact only get worse. Those zerg densities will increase over time and make it more and more in the swarm's favor.

You guys have to consider, the zerg were basically ripped off from the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k as all the starcraft factions were ripped straight from 40k and slightly modified. And in 40k, the armies are bigger and stronger than anything in WOW. ANd yes, they even fight against magic and even gods in that setting, and still win. Tyranids, like the zerg, just multiply too quickly and there's just too many of them. It's one of the 4 "dooms" of the 40k universe, one of the potential endings to the universe is that the Tyranids eat everything.

It's just not an enemy you can defeat sadly without some heavy plot device nonsense. You can fanboi about legion and pretend they're super strong all you want, but they routinely lose and have yet to succeed in their goals. Meanwhile, zerg keep eating planets and the situation is so hopeless Protoss purge those planets rather than even trying to take them back. It's the root of most of the terran vs protoss war and tensions in the first place. Terrans want to try to evacuate people to save them from those completely fucked planets, protoss want to purge it before they have a chance to spread elsewhere and contaminate another planet.

Also Kerrigan became a god at the end of SC2 so... She could take Sargeras I think.

If the legion army was TRULY overwhelming or unstoppable, they would just invade and be done with it, but they don't. They know they are not that great and kinda flimsy, so KJ tries to soften up enemies first. Tries to make populations turn against themselves to cause strife and disruption and all kinds of other shit to make them easier to take over. If they were truly powerful and overwhelming, they wouldn't give a fuck. Zerg certainly don't. And you aren't going to have KJ popping up whispering sweet nothings to the hive mind of the zerg and convincing them that fucking over their own kind is a good thing to do. Isn't gonna happen. Legion just can't compete against something like the zerg, they have absolutely nothing in their favor in such a conflict. And seeing as how one orc actually hurt Sargeras that one time, he'd fall to the overwhelming swarm as well. He isn't invincible.

[Blackspiral]

There is a few things I would have to try and figure out before committing to either choice.

Big Number One here is can the Zerg Infect the Burning Legion?
Any of the demons? Only some? Or none at all? If any of the Demons can be effected, perhaps even the bigwigs like Archimonde then the Zerg could certainly win.

And like it or not, the Twisting Nether does have to be factored in here. The main thing is how fast will they regenerate in the Nether?
Is it fast? Or a slow process? Can the Zerg infect and overrun the Legion as soon as they spawn? Or is it a gradual thing?

Even if the Zerg can infect Demons, if the Legion can spawn like jack rabbits from the Nether it will then just boil to attrition, one I see favoring the Legion more. Though if the Zerg can infect any demon, even bigwigs like Archi and Sargeras, then I would give it to the Zerg.

Yay variables! Peace.