Can death knights leave the Ebon Blade?

**Kagthul** · 2018-09-27, 02:11 PM

First off, your inability to stop projecting 20th century mores and laws onto a feudal fantasy world is doing you no favors. Lets break this down.

Originally Posted by EbonBehelit-

- Attacking Light's Hope Chapel.
- The murder of several Paladins of the Silver Hand (who were our allies).

The killing of several Paladins of the Silver Hand. In order for it to be Murder, the Knights of the Ebon Blade and the Order of the Silver Hand would both have to be subjects of a higher legal authority to which both owe fealty. This isn't true.

Legally this is no crime at all. This is two sovereign powers having a tiff. Happens all the time. In fact, the Order of the Silver Hand forgives you, in exchange for your help empowering The Ashbringer.

- Assaulting a Bronze Dragon in neutral territory.

lolwut? "Assault" on a Bronze Dragon?! OH NOES!

... and then you realize that every PC member of every faction has hunted down and exterminated thousands of sentient beings for no other reason than "we want their stuff" or "to get their attention"; Beatings, torture, threats, and even magical coercion are all totally acceptable in the Warcraft setting (by all factions).

- The murder of members of the Red Dragonflight.

Which ones are those, again? 'Cause i did the whole quest line and killed approximately zero Red Dragons. It wasn't even difficult. You can navigate the Dragonshrine without agroing anything except the mob guarding the item, and you can just Strangulate him, grab the item, and bail. You aren't required to kill anything.

Out of these, Attacking Light's Hope Chapel is the only crime with any sort of justification (with the proviso of minimizing casualties). The others are immensely foolish decisions with ramifications far exceeding any potential payoff.

What ramifications? Is the Order of the Silver Hand going to ..... learn how to fly and assault Acherus? Unlikely. Not to mention the Highlord has forgiven you. The Bronze Dragons are going to.... what? Be a tad upset that you roughed up a dragon? The Red Dragonflight is going to be mad that you... didn't kill anyone (the canon outcome, which is why the feat of strength was removed).

I've always found it jarring that my DK was essentially forced (in terms of progressing with the story) into making moral decisions I never would have made myself. I was very tempted to abandon the mount quest chain because of this.

If you're worried about RP, then ill be happy to tell you that if your DK has lots of morals and cares for the living, you're doing it wrong.

The entire point is that they are Damned. They know it, they cant fix it, and they dont try. As they say repeatedly throughout the campaign: "We do what the living cannot".

They embrace it.

If you're playing an Emo Deathknight that has all of his feelsies from being alive, you're canonically doing it wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Id add that if you're trying to say "the DKs are bad guys"....

yes. Yes they are.

Thats not in question. The Warcraft setting allows people who are evil to still be the protagonist. DKs are evil. Warlocks are evil. Shadow Priests are evil. full stop.

**Claymore** · 2018-09-27, 02:22 PM

Death Knights have always been in a weird spot. While it's true that the Ebon Blade only represents *some* of the Scourge's Death Knights, it's important to note that they were the *ONLY* Death Knights to have broken away from the Lich King. There were no Horde/Alliance Death Knights before the Ebon Blade, and thus far, there's really no indication there have been any after (that doesn't mean there aren't, simply that there's no evidence to suggest there *are*, one way or the other).

I would say the most likely case at this point is that Death Knights were part of the Ebon Blade up through ICC, when they merged with the Argent Crusade to form the Ashen Verdict. With the Lich King dead, however, the Ebon Blade effectively "disbanded", as there was really no unifying purpose anymore. As such, Death Knights were free to pursue a new path; some may have stayed in Acherus alongside Darion Mograine, but clearly some left. It's unknown how many Death Knights still exist, but it's heavily implied that aside from the new Four Horsemen, there are no new "Death Knights" being raised or trained, so they are a dwindling faction and they were rare to begin with. Of course, each and every Death Knight is a small one-man army, so they're still probably a faction that shouldn't be crossed.

As said, though, there are clearly Death Knights operating outside the scope of the Ebon Blade now. All of them *were* members of the Ebon Blade. They could still be; the Ebon Blade simply affords them the autonomy to act of their own accord.

**Nathreim** · 2018-09-27, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle

Ebon Blade has crossed the red line in it's campaign storyline, and my DK wouldn't have any hesitation to kill all of them for their crimes.

You must have not paid much attention to the story if you feel that way. We were being blackmailed into doing all the questionable shit. The Lich King said if we did not do as he wished he would invade the Broken Isles with the full might of the Scourge and kill everything. Thousands of innocent people would have died and Azeroth's military forces would have been destroyed in the cross fire between the Scourge and Legion.

We had no choice but to do as he wished the forces of Azeroth could not stop the Legion and the Scourge at the same time. The Ebon Blade is very "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

**Archon14** · 2018-09-27, 02:36 PM

I still see my DK character as Deathlord, so there is no reason for me to leave. I'm supposed to lead the order, not abandon it. Plus, Darion is one of my favourite characters, so unless he tries to assassinate me or something, I'm happy to still be a part of it.

Also, I assume that Bolvar will get his spotlight sooner or later, and I'm curious in which direction the Ebon Blade (and my character) will go. Maybe this time we won't fight against the Lich King. Maybe we'll try to use his power to our advantage.

I don't see my character as evil. Death Knights are different, we still use some forbidden magic and don't really fit well with the living, but I don't see the order as particularly bad or good, being in sort of a gray area is better for them.

**Baroclinic** · 2018-09-27, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by EbonBehelit-

- Attacking Light's Hope Chapel.
- The murder of several Paladins of the Silver Hand (who were our allies).
- Assaulting a Bronze Dragon in neutral territory.
- The murder of members of the Red Dragonflight.

Out of these, Attacking Light's Hope Chapel is the only crime with any sort of justification (with the proviso of minimizing casualties). The others are immensely foolish decisions with ramifications far exceeding any potential payoff.

I've always found it jarring that my DK was essentially forced (in terms of progressing with the story) into making moral decisions I never would have made myself. I was very tempted to abandon the mount quest chain because of this.

Here's the thing. For one, you choose to play the big scary death knight! These were guys yanking druids out of the shadowlands for target practice! Corpses are a natural resource for them to recycle! Put aside your morals and put yourself into the big scary undead warriors shoes, its called role play.

and 2, well, you said it yourself. You were "tempted". Did you abandon the questline before you fell down your moral dilemma? No, you pushed through, killing all those haughty red dragons who held the information about your prize. Hey, you got a sweet ride out of it. Had you decided, meh, I already have a dozen undead mounts, let that one rest, no one woulda been the wiser.

Me, I just refuse to sigh that damn imps contract.

Besides, those paladins are with the light now. Also they got to do a second run of Light's Hopes defenses. It was good practice for them.

**Kagthul** · 2018-09-28, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Night Lolwarrior

I've always found it disappointing that Alliance DKs don't have world quests to wet their blades on the blood of Horde civilians to push this war effort forward. I *guess* it's okay the other classes don't get to do that, even though the Horde gets to enjoy the majority genocide of another player race and it's continuation as part of their questing experience, but at the very least Death Knights should be all for spreading disease, pestilence, terror and doom across the Horde civilian populace.

Uh, what are we talking about again? Im not saying it didnt happen, i just dont remember any quests like that in Legion.

**Jastall** · 2018-09-28, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by EbonBehelit-

- Attacking Light's Hope Chapel.
- The murder of several Paladins of the Silver Hand (who were our allies).
- Assaulting a Bronze Dragon in neutral territory.
- The murder of members of the Red Dragonflight.

Out of these, Attacking Light's Hope Chapel is the only crime with any sort of justification (with the proviso of minimizing casualties). The others are immensely foolish decisions with ramifications far exceeding any potential payoff.

I've always found it jarring that my DK was essentially forced (in terms of progressing with the story) into making moral decisions I never would have made myself. I was very tempted to abandon the mount quest chain because of this.

My own personal beef is how their actions should have pissed off tons of very powerful people yet end up having really little benefits (oh wow, some random guys on horses and yet another undead dragon, weeee). The Red Dragons should be out for their blood, attacking a Brozen Dragon in broad daylight should have ended with the Wyrmrest guards skewering them on the end of their halberds, and Sylvanas would definitely expel the Horde's Death Knights after they killed Galen Trollbane and invaded her city to rescue a traitor to the Horde. Most damning of all, the Paladins should be, if not swearing revenge, then shunning them forever. Assault Light's Hope, kill several Paladins, and try to desecrate Tirion's body, all during a Legion invasion? Come on guys, there's being morally ambiguous, and then there's being team-killing assholes for no reason.

**EbonBehelit-** · 2018-09-28, 05:58 AM