Quantifying societal morality

[Saucexorzski]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

[Stelio Kontos]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

Southerners are white, at least the ones being stereotyped are white, ergo, they're fair game, no one cares what anyone says about whites.

[Deletedaccount1]

It is easier to criticize a group you know and can picture in your mind rather than some strange foreign group thousands of miles overseas.

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Southerners are white, at least the ones being stereotyped are white, ergo, they're fair game, no one cares what anyone says about whites.

I don't think race plays into it that much.

[Independent voter]

Southerners are used to that kind of treatment.

[Stelio Kontos]

Also, Southerners don't respond as violently to even the mildest forms of criticism.

[Skroe]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

This is one of those self-persecuting double standards that... whats the phrase for it... doesn't actually exist?

Let me take an educated guess. You read / saw something, it pissed you off, and rather than writing it off as just a random exception, you're generalizing.

Meanwhile we have fifteen years of laser-like focus on the treatment of women in Islam, the status of minorities in Arab countries, and the institutionalized persecution of gays (among others) across much of that part of the world where sodomy gets you killed.

Like, how have you missed this? Where have you been?

[Saucexorzski]

This is one of those self-persecuting double standards that... whats the phrase for it... doesn't actually exist?

Let me take an educated guess. You read / saw something, it pissed you off, and rather than writing it off as just a random exception, you're generalizing.

Meanwhile we have fifteen years of laser-like focus on the treatment of women in Islam, the status of minorities in Arab countries, and the institutionalized persecution of gays (among others) across much of that part of the world where sodomy gets you killed.

Like, how have you missed this? Where have you been?

No its really just the feel of society these days how it's cool to insult rednecks but Arabs get the pass. I don't really care that's how it is, good PR Arabs. I'm just curious how social morality allows such...disconnect, both parties are guitly.

[Deletedaccount1]

No its really just the feel of society these days how it's cool to insult rednecks but Arabs get the pass. I don't really care that's how it is, good PR Arabs. I'm just curious how social morality allows such...disconnect, both parties are guitly.

Arabs or Muslims? You know those are two different things right?

[Skroe]

No its really just the feel of society these days how it's cool to insult rednecks but Arabs get the pass. I don't really care that's how it is, good PR Arabs. I'm just curious how social morality allows such...disconnect, both parties are guitly.

Except. This. Doesn't. Actually. Happen.

Oh sure rednecks get shat on. But by the way, so do Arabs/Muslims.

You're legitimately trying to wish a double standard into existence because you want to talk about something.

[infinitemeridian]

No its really just the feel of society these days how it's cool to insult rednecks but Arabs get the pass. I don't really care that's how it is, good PR Arabs. I'm just curious how social morality allows such...disconnect, both parties are guitly.

You don't get out much do you?

[Deletedaccount1]

Except. This. Doesn't. Actually. Happen.

Oh sure rednecks get shat on. But by the way, so do Arabs/Muslims.

You're legitimately trying to wish a double standard into existence because you want to talk about something.

I think he is referring to the fact that white trash jokes are politically correct but jokes about Islam or Arabs might not be.

Like how you could make fun of a redneck for banging his sister but it might be considered politically incorrect to make fun of an Arab for having sex with a goat.

I haven't actually experienced PC culture outside of some of my students or on the internet so I don't know how real that distinction actually is.

[Theodarzna]

If your critical of one, you will likely live out your days as is, if you criticize the other one you will spend the rest of your life under armed protection.

That is why I can't wait for Ben Affleck to star as Muhammad in a feature film.

[Machismo]

It's perfectly acceptable to call out anyone for their bigotry, ignorance, and hatred. If a black person is racist, call him a damned racist. If an Arab is a homophobe, call him a damned homophobe.

This is tantamount to the OP trying to play the victim card. Stop trying to point out an imaginary double standard in order to feel better about yourself.

[Endus]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

What you're describing doesn't happen. What you're trying to get into is the "progressive stack" nonsense, which was invented by people who don't grasp the concepts involved.

It would be unfair of me to claim that all Southerners are racist/homophobic. And factually wrong, to boot. It would be unfair and prejudiced of me to presume that any particular Southerner I met was racist, sexist, or homophobic, based solely on their being Southern.

That same principle applies to any other group with internal variations. Even people from the Middle East. You're claiming there are two standards, and there aren't. There's one standard; judge individuals for their own personal actions and statements, do not presume shared negatives with others with whom they share an unrelated superficial similarity in some respect.

In logical terms, in both cases, it's a "some A are B" statement, where A is the group, and B is the "racist/sexist/homophobic". There's no logical way to transform that statement into an "ALL A are B" statement, which is what you're trying to do, and why people call it out.


If you want to take issue with particular individuals being prejudiced, go nuts. I'm not gonna defend a racist Arab because he's Arab. But I am gonna expect you to have some justification for that claim, other than "he's Arab".

And I'd have the same standards if it was a guy from Alabama.

No double standard whatsoever.


And before you go and find me some idiot saying that all southerners are bigots while defending Arabs, or something, that just proves that particular person is prejudiced against southerners. Them being irrational isn't a defense for being irrational in turn.


TL: DR; If you're taking issue with someone because "they're Southern" or "they're Arab", you're the one being prejudiced. If you take issue with a particular individual for their particular statements/actions, then whether or not they're Southern or Arab is pretty much irrelevant.

[Zomis]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

I think you just proved your own point, those thing exist all over not just the south.

[Kapadons]

You could just be like the rest of the us and make fun of all of them. Who cares if someone calls you a racist.

[Ghostmcghosty]

Southerners are white, at least the ones being stereotyped are white, ergo, they're fair game, no one cares what anyone says about whites.

Here is the thing though.
- Most people don't even know what count's as the South.
Texas is more South than Georgia, but Georgia is the "south" apparently to some. And when some folks think of "The south", they think redneck hillbillys in pickups and overalls banging cousins. But black people also live in the south. As well as a lot of older folks from the North who retired South.

- Most people are talking out of their ass.
We live in a time where people see shit on tv and think it makes them a pro. They comment on nuances in the middle east like they have grown up there and spoken to people currently engaged in life there. The truth is most of these folks have never even left their home city let alone the state or country. When they speak of places and people (like the South or North if they are southern) they speak from a place of bias and bigotry.


And regarding OP... It's called bias. People will call out white Christians all day for being homophobic assholes. But suddenly they get really quiet when you point out a lot of the black community is religious and very hostile to homosexuals.

[Jimmy Woods]

I'm really curious why it is socialy acceptable to criticize southerners in the US for their racism, sexism, and homophobia yet to do so of Arabs and middle easterners is not socialy acceptable to the point that such criticism is seen as racism. It seems like a weird double standard that any reasonable person concerned over such thing would seek to adress.

It seems socially acceptable to criticize Arabs and middle easterners as it happens every day. Just look through a week's worth of threads on this forum. You're going to find a lot more critical of Middle Easterners than you are of Southerners.

Why do people call you racist for criticizing Middle Easterners? Well, can't say for 100%, but I'd suspect it is because people who often criticize Middle Easterners only see what is presented to them through their news media and then judge their whole society based on their worst actors. You wouldn't want people to judge ALL Americans based on only footage of BLM protests/riots or by "Florida Man", so why do you judge an entire region based on their worst behaved?

I think Southerners get a bad rap based on their history of systemic racism against blacks and not that most Southerners are racist, although I've seen plenty of examples recently of racists from Texas in the public spotlight from that pageant winner to many reality TV "stars". There seems to be an indifference in wanting to change that image.

[Ryme]

Meanwhile we have fifteen years of laser-like focus on the treatment of women in Islam, the status of minorities in Arab countries, and the institutionalized persecution of gays (among others) across much of that part of the world where sodomy gets you killed.

Like, how have you missed this? Where have you been?

Whilst I agree, I find it hard to accept that in social circles today it's easier to use this 'laser-like' focus of the wrong doings in Islam compared to the relatively lazy focus of what the southern states are doing.

I'd reference how mass media typically reports on both, and then how mass media influences popular opinion. A simple google search shows far higher, far more direct and ugly writing on, for example, homophobia in Islam compared with homophobia in the southern states.

Now, I think this is probably done to suit capitalist goals - it's easier to sell a story calling the people you know bad people than the people you don't but this doesn't take away from what the OP is stating.

[Kraenen]

Except. This. Doesn't. Actually. Happen.

Oh sure rednecks get shat on. But by the way, so do Arabs/Muslims.

You're legitimately trying to wish a double standard into existence because you want to talk about something.

It kind of does, except you see this more in 'liberal' circles. The other half you yourself note happens in 'conservative' circles.