Aetna to exit nearly 7 in 10 Obamacare plans

[grimniruk]

People who argue against universial healthcare confuse me.

It's like Pay as you go vs contract.

What would you rather do, Pay out for your phone only when you need it for insane amounts at a time? Or constantly have a good deal that you constantly pay for?

[petej0]

(source)

The best argument for a single-payer health plan is today’s decision by giant health insurer Aetna to stop participating in Obamacare health exchanges in all but four states. If follows a similar move by UnitedHealth Group, the nation's largest insurer. Both say they’re not making enough money because too many people with serious health problems are using the exchanges and not enough healthy people are signing up.

It all proves that a healthcare system run by giant for-profit firms is a system designed to avoid sick people.

Meanwhile, giant health insurers are consolidating into two or three behemoths. Aetna itself is trying to buy Humana. So the real choice for the future is either a public single-payer system or a hugely-expensive for-profit single-payer monopoly that will try to avoid people who need health care.

What do you think?

No, they are saying they are losing money. I mean its one thing to demonize the health insurance industry, but at least get it right.

[SupBrah]

They are inefficient because 50% of our politicians make it that way on purpose. That's like saying the horse is inefficient at pulling the carriage, when republicans are busy tossing a 500 billion dollar military budget on it's back.

Government incompetence isn't a bi-partisan issue by any means.

Democrats and Republicans both have their hands out, willing to fuck over the "peasants" for wealthy elites.

[zenkai]

Government incompetence isn't a bi-partisan issue by any means.

Democrats and Republicans both have their hands out, willing to fuck over the "peasants" for wealthy elites.

Thank you, I keep preaching that on these forums. Wish people realize most politicians only show enough to care for votes, when it comes down to it, the only care about the people who donate large cash to keep them in power. When they are in office they spend half their time campaigning to get re-elected.

[Poopymonster]

Life threatening afflictions are mandatory to be treated, regardless of insurance or ability to pay. It's been that way in the US since the 1950s.

Getting you stabilized and getting you out the door if you lack insurance is has become.

Oh yeah "Follow up with your regular doctor tomorrow"

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Huh? No Child Left Behind (passed by Bush but had overwhelming bipartisan support) increased funding for public schools.

And when Medicare started in 1965, it was estimated it would cost the country 9 billion by 1990. It cost 67 billion. Today it costs 390 billion. I would HATE to see that over-funded....

And social security is growing broke, despite the SS income tax being over 6% already. How is that being underfunded by the right?

The right nutjubs might try to underfund a lot of programs (or, more accurately, leave it to the states to decide) ... but those listed are not among them. Sorry.

If they'd lift the cap on SS tax, it's be all set. Isn't it the first 250K has SS tax, over that is clear?

And if Congress would put back what they took from it, that would be nice.

[petej0]

Humanitarian Ideal:
- Society is served by having a healthcare sector where people who get sick/injured can get treatment.
- The healthcare sector services should be available to everyone, no matter your lot in life.

US Right wing ideal:
- Healthcare services should be a service available only to people who can afford it.
- Poor people are not welcome, and are encouraged to die in a way as painful as possible, elsewhere.

I never understood this US right wing attitude. Nobody in the rest of the world understands the US right wing attitude. It's a scenario where a people tripping on vindictiveness, pettyness, and schadenfreude all decide to make life as terrible as possible for as many people as possible, under the pretext of an ideal of a minimal state. It's the same people who hundreds of years ago were complaining about public schooling, and actively opposed the introduction of sewage systems.

Yes, the right wingers just want poor people to die without health care. The hyperbole is strong here.

The health insurance industry got fucked when employers started offering to subsidize health insurance costs en lieu of wage controls placed on employers followed by tax rules that allows employers to write off the health plans they purchase as a business expense. We introduced a system where nobody cares about the cost of the product (insurance) because it isnt being paid for entirely by the recipient (the employee) or the purchaser (the employer).

[Underverse]

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...t-of-exchanges

"Our analysis to date makes clear that if the deal were challenged and/or blocked we would need to take immediate actions to mitigate public exchange and ACA small group losses. Specifically, if the DOJ sues to enjoin the transaction, we will immediately take action to reduce our 2017 exchange footprint. We currently plan, as part of our strategy following the acquisition, to expand from 15 states in 2016 to 20 states in 2017. However, if we are in the midst of litigation over the Humana transaction, given the risks described above, we will not be able to expand to the five additional states. In addition, we would also withdraw from at least five additional states where generating a market return would take too long for us to justify, given the costs associated with a potential breakup of the transaction. In other words, instead of expanding to 20 states next year, we would reduce our presence to no more than 10 states. We also would not be in a position to provide assistance to failing cooperative exchanges as we did in Iowa recently."

Aetna was already threatening the DOJ with withdrawal if they didn't get their way, despite planning to expand. This is them throwing a tantrum.

[Shadowferal]

Healthcare needs to be realized as a service.

Not profit-driven misery.

[petej0]

If they'd lift the cap on SS tax, it's be all set. Isn't it the first 250K has SS tax, over that is clear?

The problem with SS is people collecting for spouses and divorcees getting a share of their ex's and people living longer collecting far more then they contributed.

Those who make more then the cap dont rely on SS because they have made so much over their lifetimes, that SS isnt really needed.

And if Congress would put back what they took from it, that would be nice.

Its all there, dont worry. The Federal Government has to pay out SS benefits.

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Aetna was already threatening the DOJ with withdrawal if they didn't get their way, despite planning to expand. This is them throwing a tantrum.

Yeah, they knew it wasnt profitable and if they didnt get what they needed they would withdraw. It isnt a tantrum when they said ahead of time it wasnt profitable.

In addition, we would also withdraw from at least five additional states where generating a market return would take too long for us to justify, given the costs associated with a potential breakup of the transaction.

[judgementofantonidas]

(source)

The best argument for a single-payer health plan is today’s decision by giant health insurer Aetna to stop participating in Obamacare health exchanges in all but four states. If follows a similar move by UnitedHealth Group, the nation's largest insurer. Both say they’re not making enough money because too many people with serious health problems are using the exchanges and not enough healthy people are signing up.

It all proves that a healthcare system run by giant for-profit firms is a system designed to avoid sick people.

Meanwhile, giant health insurers are consolidating into two or three behemoths. Aetna itself is trying to buy Humana. So the real choice for the future is either a public single-payer system or a hugely-expensive for-profit single-payer monopoly that will try to avoid people who need health care.

What do you think?

Health insurance just like any other insurance is nothing but a money making scam legitimized by the state. You pay in for your entire adult life, but if you change providers all that money is gone, if you have a genuine need to be cared for, you have deductibles and co pays that protect the insurance company from having to pay out. Insurance companies will even deny you the use of brand name drugs or advanced procedures that have a higher success rate, or just make you feel better quicker in order to save what they have to pay out. My one ex worked in the medical billing department of Guissinger Health Center in Danville Pennsylvania. She routinely had to find ways around the insurance companies screwing people out of things that the insurance company deemed "not absolutely neccessary".

[Danner]

Yes, the right wingers just want poor people to die without health care. The hyperbole is strong here.

The health insurance industry got fucked when employers started offering to subsidize health insurance costs en lieu of wage controls placed on employers followed by tax rules that allows employers to write off the health plans they purchase as a business expense. We introduced a system where nobody cares about the cost of the product (insurance) because it isnt being paid for entirely by the recipient (the employee) or the purchaser (the employer).

There was indeed some hyperbole in my post. Doesn't make the point less valid.

Either healthcare is for everyone regardless of lot in life, or someone needs to be told "die horribly elsewhere, you're not our problem".

There can be no middle path on this. I'm living in Norway, socialist paradise where I can suffer a ruptured appendix without having to sell my apartment. I have no stake in this. The question is on you - which type of society do you want? One that tells people to they're not worthy of treatment, or the opposite?

The privatized healthcare sector has created the most expensive heathcare system in the world - that of the US. It's also one of the best, if you're a billionaire. It's decidedly terrible if you are poor, homeless and/or unemployed. I will agree with what you say - the health insurance industry in the US is fucked. The US system is fucked. This was true both before and after the obamacare reform. There are many ways of organizing health care. I do not think obamacare is the perfect answer at all. But show me an alternative that doesn't lead to rejecting critically sick patients at the door.

That's my challenge.

[Tinykong]

Its all there, dont worry. The Federal Government has to pay out SS benefits.

Hopefully the electric company will accept the I.O.U.s written on Post-it Notes that the government will be sending out in lieu of checks when I'm 65.

[Shadowferal]

The reason why it all costs so damn much is that everyone, including the government, is paying a premium for every little thing to those damn businesses.

...but keep your damn government hands of my Medicare...*sigh*

[petej0]

Health insurance just like any other insurance is nothing but a money making scam legitimized by the state. You pay in for your entire adult life, but if you change providers all that money is gone, if you have a genuine need to be cared for, you have deductibles and co pays that protect the insurance company from having to pay out. Insurance companies will even deny you the use of brand name drugs or advanced procedures that have a higher success rate, or just make you feel better quicker in order to save what they have to pay out. My one ex worked in the medical billing department of Guissinger Health Center in Danville Pennsylvania. She routinely had to find ways around the insurance companies screwing people out of things that the insurance company deemed "not absolutely neccessary".

If we treated Car or Home insurance like health insurance those rates would be just as high. Health insurance should not exist in its current form. We should have government provided catastrophic care for everyone and private plans to pay for minor shit like the sniffles.

The problem I see with government providing health care is cost controls. One of those cost controls is preventive care which mean mandating people to get their annual physicals and testing. Yet another government mandate.

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The reason why it all costs so damn much is that everyone, including the government, is paying a premium for every little thing to those damn businesses.

...but keep your damn government hands of my Medicare...*sigh*

I am sorry but do the letters on those signs look photoshopped?

[Deleted]

People who argue against universial healthcare confuse me.

It's like Pay as you go vs contract.

What would you rather do, Pay out for your phone only when you need it for insane amounts at a time? Or constantly have a good deal that you constantly pay for?

With Pay as you go I spend 30ish euro a year since I only keep a phone (one i've chosen myself) for emergencies and top up when needed (vacations, mostly).

With a Contract, I am paying for a shitty phone and services I don't ever need, and the phone is locked, too.

[grimniruk]

With Pay as you go I spend 30ish euro a year since I only keep a phone (one i've chosen myself) for emergencies and top up when needed (vacations, mostly).

With a Contract, I am paying for a shitty phone and services I don't ever need, and the phone is locked, too.

Ah the "I only pay for Tirage" excuse then.

[petej0]

Hopefully the electric company will accept the I.O.U.s written on Post-it Notes that the government will be sending out in lieu of checks when I'm 65.

The federal government pays social security out of current revenues. So it will always pay it out.

[judgementofantonidas]

The problem I see with government providing health care is cost controls. One of those cost controls is preventive care which mean mandating people to get their annual physicals and testing. Yet another government mandate.

When everyone was mandated to have health insurance, not only did the cost of said insurance not go down, but employers no longer chose to shoulder as much of the load. I am all for some of the wasted bureaucrat pay going to healthcare.

[grimniruk]

When everyone was mandated to have health insurance, not only did the cost of said insurance not go down, but employers no longer chose to shoulder as much of the load. I am all for some of the wasted bureaucrat pay going to healthcare.

Easily the best way to view it.

[Shadowferal]

When everyone was mandated to have health insurance, not only did the cost of said insurance not go down, but employers no longer chose to shoulder as much of the load. I am all for some of the wasted bureaucrat pay going to healthcare.

Bullshit!
My HMO went away and they tried to foist some idiocy of an "EPO" on me.
I paid $32/month for that HMO which covered 100% of everything in-network.
EPO costs me $165/month...initially, (priced is getting jacked up next year big), for "select" coverage" on shit I don't need, and add the cost of a deductible ($5500), well, needless to say, the penalty/fine...whatever the fuck they want to call it, for not having insurance was far cheaper.