[spoiler] Patch 7.1 Stormheim raid. What will we se?

[Syegfryed]

Helya wasn't OK with being a Val'kyr even before Odyn made her into one.

yet, was only when Loken put things on her mind she turn back agaisnt odyn, some manipulated girl she isnt?

Helya's army has actual continuous combat experience against actual foes (mostly the Naga). Odyn's army sat on their asses for millenia staring at Odyn's ballsack beard.

wrong, like valhalla there they fight training for milenia, improving their combat skills, since you can't die there

and tbh nagas are not a big treat , everyone kills then anyway

[Zandalariprelate]

yet, was only when Loken put things on her mind she turn back agaisnt odyn, some manipulated girl she isnt?





wrong, like valhalla there they fight training for milenia, improving their combat skills, since you can't die there

and tbh nagas are not a big treat , everyone kills then anyway

Well wasn't hard either convince her with the whole val kyr transformation that odyn put her but she turn in something even worse than odyn ever was because she cant kill him alone and that is why she was trying to do a army to kill him. About the Helajar being more stronger than the valajar is pure bullshit, the kvaldir only raid on coasts or fight smallest groups of naga while one of the valajar champion(the one who is our predecessor) almost kill helya alone with the valajar swords only a fanboy with boobs will say something like that

[Qualia]

yet, was only when Loken put things on her mind she turn back agaisnt odyn, some manipulated girl she isnt?

I agree that Helya is evil, but it's true that she wasn't ok with being a Val'kyr. In fact, none (or most) of the first generation of the Val'kyr did. The Vrykul only saw it as a honorable thing later. Back then, Odyn magically bound her to his will and she was compelled to follow his order even when she was filled with anger. Loken only helped her to break that magic.

[Mehrunes]

yet, was only when Loken put things on her mind she turn back agaisnt odyn, some manipulated girl she isnt?

Because she was under Odyn's control. Loken didn't put anything in her mind that wasn't already there and didn't manipulate her whatsoever. Helya hated Odyn ever since he ignored the shit out of her pleas and turned her into a Val'kyr against her will. Analogically to how Sylvanas rebelling against Arthas only after Illidan's actions set her free doesn't mean she rebelled only because Illidan put things in her mind.

wrong, like valhalla there they fight training for milenia, improving their combat skills, since you can't die there

and tbh nagas are not a big treat , everyone kills then anyway

Considering I outright mentioned experience against actual enemy, "wrong" my ass. Sparring while grandpa VALOR rubs your back with his ballsack beard doesn't count as actual fight against an enemy and isn't remotely as meaningful an experience. And Azshara is one of the most powerful spellcasters on Azeroth, where all top positions for powerful characters involve other spellcasters. And her Naga scavenge any artifacts they can fine while waging (and mostly winning) a war for the control of the seas. They also have the support of an Old God. Everyone kills demons too. That doesn't mean Legion isn't a threat. It means you're playing an MMO.

Well wasn't hard either convince her with the whole val kyr transformation that odyn put her but she turn in something even worse than odyn ever was because she cant kill him alone and that is why she was trying to do a army to kill him. About the Helajar being more stronger than the valajar is pure bullshit, the kvaldir only raid on coasts or fight smallest groups of naga while one of the valajar champion(the one who is our predecessor) almost kill helya alone with the valajar swords only a fanboy with boobs will say something like that

The Artifact book said Ingvar almost overwhelmed her. Not that he almost killed her. Then was obliterated. Also, you're conflating Helerjar with normal Kvaldir. Quality post.

[Syegfryed]

Because she was under Odyn's control. Loken didn't put anything in her mind that wasn't already there and didn't manipulate her whatsoever. Helya hated Odyn ever since he ignored the shit out of her pleas and turned her into a Val'kyr against her will. Analogically to how Sylvanas rebelling against Arthas only after Illidan's actions set her free doesn't mean she rebelled only because Illidan put things in her mind.

interesting, thats why you defend her and want odyn dead so hard

anyway, if she will was bound to Odyn how could she be free, then trap him on the hall os valor? or she trap odyn, then she cold be free because fo that? if is the first, she was not bounded like the lich king army

Considering I outright mentioned experience against actual enemy, "wrong" my ass. Sparring while grandpa VALOR rubs your back with his ballsack beard doesn't count as actual fight against an enemy and isn't remotely as meaningful an experience. And Azshara is one of the most powerful spellcasters on Azeroth, where all top positions for powerful characters involve other spellcasters. And her Naga scavenge any artifacts they can fine while waging (and mostly winning) a war for the control of the seas. They also have the support of an Old God. Everyone kills demons too. That doesn't mean Legion isn't a threat. It means you're playing an MMO.

actual enemy? you mean only nagas? when the vrykul, know by the most powerfull warriors, are training until they died ( so they reborn, cause there they can't die) with each others for a milenia to prepare for the fight? gaining years of experience in combat skills? they are like Einherjar most strong force of the gods against the giants, and like the other guy said one of the valajar champion could stand against her, not win, but he was damn strong

and fight against nagas doesn't mean you fight directly against azshara and old gods wtf, darkspears fight with then frequently but they are not the most deadly force of the world

The Artifact book said Ingvar almost overwhelmed her. Not that he almost killed her. Then was obliterated. Also, you're conflating Helerjar with normal Kvaldir. Quality post.

pretty sure if you almost overwhelm some one, you almost win, anyway, he know he could not win, yet, show how strong he was, for someone who sit on the odyn beard

[Combatbutler]

interesting, thats why you defend her and want odyn dead so hard

anyway, if she will was bound to Odyn how could she be free, then trap him on the hall os valor? or she trap odyn, then she cold be free because fo that? if is the first, she was not bounded like the lich king army

She was bound to Odyn, it was Loken who made rebellion possible.

[Traveler Voltin]

odyn has defenders now?

[Syegfryed]

She was bound to Odyn, it was Loken who made rebellion possible.

how, exactly?

[Friendlyimmolation]

how, exactly?

read the damn chronicle book.

[Qualia]

how, exactly?

Magic? Loken just helped her to break the spell.

[Syegfryed]

Magic? Loken just helped her to break the spell.

umm, i read the book, but didn't notice he helped her to break a spell, just make her turn against him

[Friendlyimmolation]

umm, i read the book, but didn't notice he helped her to break a spell, just make her turn against him

She was bound by odyns magic Loken helped her rebel and she locked odyn in the halls once she was free.

[Zandalariprelate]

The Artifact book said Ingvar almost overwhelmed her. Not that he almost killed her. Then was obliterated. Also, you're conflating Helerjar with normal Kvaldir. Quality post.

So the Kvaldir i fought in nothrend were the part of the helajar? Because i am pretty sure that race only exist because she create them also we had killed a lot of them in helheim without help from another person and only a few of them are in the same levels of the valajar(the one in maw of dammed dungeon and the new raid)

how, exactly?

Dark magic to bind undead to the user will like death knights do, which bring another question in what moment did odyn learn about the realm of shadows or did aman'thul know about necromancy and those dark magic or he learn that in some fight against yogg saron?

[Qualia]

umm, i read the book, but didn't notice he helped her to break a spell, just make her turn against him

Though she loathed Odyn for what he had done to her, she found herself compelled to obey his will.

For millennia, Helya had dutifully followed Odyn's commands, transporting the spirits of slain Vrykul to the Halls of Valor. Yet even while she did so, Helya nursed the cold anger that stirred in her phantom heart. <...>

Loken called out to Helya and played on her simmering anger and feelings of betrayal. He promised he would break the chains of servitude that bound her to follow Odyn's will. In exchange, she would seal off the Halls of Valor from the world forever. <...>

After Loken had restored her free will, Helya called on the same powers she had used to secure the Elemental Plane in ages past.

There you go. As you can see, even when Helya hated Odyn, she had to obey his will. Loken helped her to "break the chains of servitude that bound her to follow Odyn's will" and "restored her free will"

[Zandalariprelate]

There you go. As you can see, even when Helya hated Odyn, she had to obey his will. Loken helped her to "break the chains of servitude that bound her to follow Odyn's will" and "restored her free will"

I would like to know why she didn't do anything against yogg saron after loken betrayal since she fought against him in the war of the black empire and know that being is really evil and dangerous but them it is say that also loken transform her in that tentacle thing maybe that magic dark her hearth even more to a point that only Odyn Death matters to her and give the rest of azeroth the middle finger

[Friendlyimmolation]

I would like to know why she didn't do anything against yogg saron after loken betrayal since she fought against him in the war of the black empire and know that being is really evil and dangerous but them it is say that also loken transform her in that tentacle thing maybe that magic dark her hearth even more to a point that only Odyn Death matters to her and give the rest of azeroth the middle finger

she was an incredibly talented sorceress, creating planes she probably could shape herself however she wanted. And all her focus and rage was on odyn. He killed her.

[Syegfryed]

She was bound by odyns magic Loken helped her rebel and she locked odyn in the halls once she was free.

There you go. As you can see, even when Helya hated Odyn, she had to obey his will. Loken helped her to "break the chains of servitude that bound her to follow Odyn's will" and "restored her free will"

umm nice, i'm dyslexic so sometimes i read to fast and some things just pass unnoticed, i knew about loken's betrayal, she rebelling and trapping Odyn, but this, the spell thing, just vanished

[Zandalariprelate]

she was an incredibly talented sorceress, creating planes she probably could shape herself however she wanted. And all her focus and rage was on odyn. He killed her.

Yeah she is a powerful sorceress even Ra-Den comments that in a talk with her while they were thinking in how to lock the elementals lords but since her transformation in a valkyr and loken "gif" with that constant use of those dark magic upen her i always though that is the reason she become more dark and grimm and even ruthless because you know dark magic then to do that i would have liked see her feing her death and delete the spell of over the valajar since while Odyn is free i think he doesn't care if helya is alive(he can build some teleport like deathwing did to move fire elementals to hyjal but in this case valajars)

[Mehrunes]

Yeah. I really don't think Odyn is on our side at all really. If it weren't for the Legion's impending doom that dude would be killing us left and right. Not that he's evil, but more that he's lawful neutral, and the law he abides by is his own personal definition of valor

Well, I wouldn't go as far as him killing us if it weren't for Legion (mostly because if it weren't for Legion we'd still avoid Broken Isles because reasons and Odyn wouldn't get the opportunity to dupe us into killing Helya which would free him), but "he's against the Legion" is literally his only redeeming quality and the only sensible argument in his favor his defenders have, which also could have been said about Arthas and plenty other villains. Even if he was free, main factions are most likely so not VALOROUS in his eyes we'd be unworthy of his time. Then again he's xenophobic and crazy so who knows.

In light of which, Blizzard making it so we have to bend over every time he appears to scream about VALOR is inconsistent with their portrayal of said other assholes that are also against Legion and story development that annoys the shit out of me. Continuing the analogy with Arthas and the Ebon Blade/Forsaken, the only way for it to be even more analogous is for the Vargul to be Ebon Blade/Forsaken thing and for them to also have some elite something-jar Vrykul. And just as it would be idiotic for Blizz to make us team up with Arthas in that case, it's idiotic that the make us team up with Arthas v2 (or v0, depending on how you look at it) now.

interesting, thats why you defend her and want odyn dead so hard

I only made a very similar example to show why you're wrong, but feel free to project.

anyway, if she will was bound to Odyn how could she be free, then trap him on the hall os valor? or she trap odyn, then she cold be free because fo that? if is the first, she was not bounded like the lich king army

If Illidan breaking Sylvanas free doesn't mean Illidan was the one who put thoughts of rebellion into her head is analogous to Loken not being the one who put thoughts of rebellion into Helya's head, the context is clear as day and Loken broke her free (though she was slowly getting there on her own anyway from what I recall).

actual enemy? you mean only nagas? when the vrykul, know by the most powerfull warriors, are training until they died ( so they reborn, cause there they can't die) with each others for a milenia to prepare for the fight? gaining years of experience in combat skills? they are like Einherjar most strong force of the gods against the giants, and like the other guy said one of the valajar champion could stand against her, not win, but he was damn strong

I could swear I said "mostly Nagas" two posts ago. But yes, Naga are an actual enemy. Other than Valarjar that spar with you are not. Again, preparing for the fight is not the same as actual fighting. How is that a hard concept? Sparring with each others isn't remotely the same as fighting skirmishes and wars in terms of gaining experience. When it comes to their time before becoming Valarjar, them being Vrykul means squat, because so are Helarjar. And not sure where you got the idea that Vrykul are the most powerful warriors (other than Odyn's biased ass) anyway when the alive Vrykul get their butts kicked by everything from the Scourge, through Kvaldir, to Highmountain Tauren. And that one Valarjar was not only a champion of theirs, with a powerful artifact to boot, but he failed monumentally anyway.

and fight against nagas doesn't mean you fight directly against azshara and old gods wtf, darkspears fight with then frequently but they are not the most deadly force of the world

Did I say it's directly fighting against Azshara? Nope. Darkspears also fought with one single Naga frequently and they got their assess handed to them by her until Cata.

pretty sure if you almost overwhelm some one, you almost win, anyway, he know he could not win, yet, show how strong he was, for someone who sit on the odyn beard

Not really, no. You first need to overwhelm someone to be in a position where you can almost kill that person.

So the Kvaldir i fought in nothrend were the part of the helajar? Because i am pretty sure that race only exist because she create them also we had killed a lot of them in helheim without help from another person and only a few of them are in the same levels of the valajar(the one in maw of dammed dungeon and the new raid)

They aren't? Which part of my post indicates they are, exactly? Also, not only are the Kvaldir in Helheim not Helarjar (at least the questing version, haven't done the raid yet, though Wowhead doesn't mention any trash right now), but even if they were, we kill plenty Valarjar in Halls of Valor as well. So I'm not sure what's the basis of your claims. Especially since even Odyn himself acknowledges the Helarjar as powerful.

[Syegfryed]

I could swear I said "mostly Nagas" two posts ago. But yes, Naga are an actual enemy. Other than Valarjar that spar with you are not. Again, preparing for the fight is not the same as actual fighting. How is that a hard concept? Sparring with each others isn't remotely the same as fighting skirmishes and wars in terms of gaining experience. When it comes to their time before becoming Valarjar, them being Vrykul means squat, because so are Helarjar. And not sure where you got the idea that Vrykul are the most powerful warriors (other than Odyn's biased ass) anyway when the alive Vrykul get their butts kicked by everything from the Scourge, through Kvaldir, to Highmountain Tauren. And that one Valarjar was not only a champion of theirs, with a powerful artifact to boot, but he failed monumentally anyway.
.

i said they are one of the most powerful warriors, because they are, and dont think in the hall os valor they just fight like some ufc thing, like i said the analogy is from Valhalla, and they train until dead, so they reborn, and they train war, battles, formations, for i dont know hundred of years?

They train tirelessly and incessantly every day, all this time, giving everything they have because they can not die, to ensure they are prepared, its not like training on the kor'korn botcamp

tl:dr Valarjar>>>helarjar