Blizzard realised that addons have to much influence on raiding

[Holofernes]

or maybe its time to realise that maybe you are not mythic raid material if you depend so much on addons and refuse to put in effort equal to the difficulty of content - its not a shame to admit that you are hc raider who just dablle in mythic instead cuting edge material if that cuting edge is obtained via 15 addons and +20 itlv on gear

this is what is fundamentaly wrong with the game atm - that the same people who depend on 20 addons to raid then make fun of lfr/normal raiders who usually dont use any addons only rely on basic ui. for me its very deep design flaw - either incorporate those addons into the game and give it as raid tool to everyone or ban them as they give unfair advantage.

i really dunno why the hell blizzard hasnt implemented their version of dbm/big wings and few others ages ago with how fundamental change they make to raiding

actually they have nearly everything is readable from castbars, boss-emotes and animations. as a melee i tend to watch boss animations a lot, because its a big tell whats gonna happen, its an old habbit back when there were no castbars in the game. did u know for example that lady vashj hands lit green before she (or the bats/bird) do the ae u have to doge as melee? Did u know that shadowtrap had a unique animation at lk? And last bat not least, a clock for timers was introduced in the standard ui. Pvpers use it quite a bit.
Addons make this more readable and easier to acess in form of timer bars, which is good. If they tell you exactly where to run, not so good.

[aysatsana]

Blizz doesn't like addons yet they keep "forcing" us to use them. I know here they are specifically talking about raiding addons but let's just look at some other examples:

- They removed a bunch of stuff from the character stats page like armor, mount speed,attack speed, etc. that many players would like to see. They could simply have a "advanced character stats" option in the interface menu, but no, those who want that need to download an addon (DejaCharacterStats)

- They pruned the interface menu itself, removing a bunch of options that were there before (it's too complicated!!). Those who would like those options back need to donwload an addon (AdvancedInterfaceOptions)

- The UI itself is extremely outdated, you can't even move things around or have any sort of basic customization. Why did they only update the raid frames, why can't they update the whole game UI like they did with the raid frames? At least unify the look so that everything matches, like make the unit frames match the new Personal Resource Display and the new raid frames.

I know this isn't necessarily related to raiding addons, but Blizz keeps removing options from the player (nerfed camera view, pruned interface menu and character stats page) which kind of forces us to use addons. I personally like to minimize the number of addons I use (while not losing functionality) but I have to keep downloading addons.

[Perkunas]

Add a damage meter to the default UI.
Add the ability to move and resize ANYTHING to the default UI(rift had this in what, 2008?)
Add the ability to make buffs/debuffs attached to player frame.
Add a search option in bags and make them better organized instead of the utter garbage unorganized mess.
Remove the api, ban all addons.

No reason for addons to exist if those things are done. Addons have been a problem in this game since early vanilla with decurse. Just get rid of them already. The fact that they make the developers lives harder should be an instant "huh, maybe we should remove this and make the default UI great".

WHAT? You realize that it's because of add-ons that great number of modern features in the current game even exist right? All you have to do is fix the ones that go too far which Blizzard does. It really only happens once in a great while. Decursive and Healbot(old) in Vanilla, AVR in Wrath and now this one. So for 4 fixes they've added tons of features and created infinitely better content than games that don't allow interface mods SEE Star Wars for an example of a game with SHIT encounters because of the lack of add ons.

[Zoldor]

It is an overall design choice. The option was keep the arms race going, Create a mechanic, addon makes mechanic easy, come up with new more intense mechanic, make new addon etc, so they decided to deescalate the race. This is a way to still have hard mechanics, but not have to be so insane that a 3rd party simplifies it. Look at Mythic Archi, how much farther can they go before its just a giant cluster fuck of abilities that you need instant info to complete.

I think it is a smart move, we'll probably see bosses with slightly easier mechanics, that seem harder due to a lack of addons. From Mythic Wrought where were they going to go? Or well Mythic Wrought with 3 other abilities to manage. It was going to get pretty out of hand and isolate mild to lower tier guilds completely and probably destroy upper level. This is like putting a cap on certain types of abilities.

They were having to design around the idea of these addons, so they just removed the ability of those addons to simplify design, while keeping a balance of difficulty and fun.

[Unholyground]

Then there should be at least tools ingame or something like that, that help you learn your rotation.

If you cannot learn your rotation based off of reading the abilities you probably should not be playing WoW.

[Drusin]

If you cannot learn your rotation based off of reading the abilities you probably should not be playing WoW.

Yikes lol, I have no proof of course but I'm fairly confident a majority of players would not be playing wow. If you can look at your talents and abilities and determine what will do the most possible dps then props to you. I know I couldn't do that, I wonder how long it takes theorycrafters to do it. I mean if you just want a basic shit ass rotation sure, but to be competitive, not gonna happen lol.

[Unholyground]

Yikes lol, I have no proof of course but I'm fairly confident a majority of players would not be playing wow. If you can look at your talents and abilities and determine what will do the most possible dps then props to you. I know I couldn't do that, I wonder how long it takes theorycrafters to do it. I mean if you just want a basic shit ass rotation sure, but to be competitive, not gonna happen lol.

You can figure it out, I have been playing WoW long enough to know what needs to be used when and whether something is worth it or not. It is a skill that takes 12 years + to develop.

[purebalance]

They really need to break 90% of the add ons.

[Yuyn]

It's not clear exactly what they're breaking yet, beyond precise positioning data. The distance data may remain intact, making "x yards" mechanics still assist-able with an addon, but only in giving you an "all clear" or "X player still in range" warning.

[Reloe]

yea we'll have to see until 7.1 ptr to see if they break the general rangecheck aswell (they can't really break the spellrange-checks so might aswell keep the precise check)

[Drusin]

You can figure it out, I have been playing WoW long enough to know what needs to be used when and whether something is worth it or not. It is a skill that takes 12 years + to develop.

I can imagine it would since Sims do millions of calculations to tell me what is 1% better I imagine it would take a decade to develop that ability on your own.

[Deleted]

I think overall this is going in the right direction. But some of the examples Blizzard gives are not really too valid. Many of the position based boss mechanics used fixed positions on the ground that are not THAT hard to learn if you are in a somewhat stable raid group and you keep going into the same position. It's just impossible to properly do in pick-up groups. But then those barely used these addons either.

All those radar addons are really getting out of hand though, and they definately should be broken in some fashion.

[Unholyground]

I can imagine it would since Sims do millions of calculations to tell me what is 1% better I imagine it would take a decade to develop that ability on your own.

Plus no one will ever be able to do a rotation as well as a sim, so it is a non achievable goal.

[Vladinator]

Probably posted already, but the Wrought Chaos argument, it can be handled like this :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MIJQsDaInU&t=3m44s

I realize they yell a position, but they don't need a radar like that, so you can manage without by doing something else.

[Deleted]

Probably posted already, but the Wrought Chaos argument, it can be handled like this :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MIJQsDaInU&t=3m44s

I realize they yell a position, but they don't need a radar like that, so you can manage without by doing something else.

To be fair, this is still quite addon assisted and would be even messier with people having to make nice lines on the fly without one.

But this shows that some of the most important raid mechanics would still be heavily beneficial to the raid performance even without a radar mechanic.

Just like Zakuun woud be a nightmare without addons for the seeds. But it again needs no radar/player positions.

[Vladinator]

^ Just to add, with the addon change, blizz will also adjust raid mechanics to better suit the "no radar" style they are aiming for, so I don't think it will be a huge issue for future boss fights. And addons will still be around for everything else that is not radar specific that requires to know player positions on the map. In the end, I dont think it will be such a horrible experience as some might think it will be. Time will tell.

[Deleted]

^ Just to add, with the addon change, blizz will also adjust raid mechanics to better suit the "no radar" style they are aiming for, so I don't think it will be a huge issue for future boss fights. And addons will still be around for everything else that is not radar specific that requires to know player positions on the map. In the end, I dont think it will be such a horrible experience as some might think it will be. Time will tell.

they could still do simelair mechanics like pools from kormok/hands from kromog, archi lasers for M etc, but give it more time instead of say 5 they give you 8sec to get good in line.

[Vladinator]

^ Yes, definitely.

[Drusin]

Plus no one will ever be able to do a rotation as well as a sim, so it is a non achievable goal.

That never has and never will matter all that matters it the effort.

- - - Updated - - -

they could still do simelair mechanics like pools from kormok/hands from kromog, archi lasers for M etc, but give it more time instead of say 5 they give you 8sec to get good in line.

Raid leaders crying everywhere lol.

[pmkaboo]

That mechanic on mythic was not capable of being handled without some type of indication where the beams were heading.

wrong, nobody just bothered to come up with a solution, because thanks to addons, it was not necessary.

you could for example split the raid into two lines, sources on one side, targets on other side, and noone would ever get hit by more than one beam:

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