Texas "pro life" policies have doubled the maternal mortality rate

[Wells]

I'll go with C. Everett Koop's assessment of pro-life vs maternal mortality...

http://i60.tinypic.com/dw5owp.jpg

Why do you trust this statement?

[Ghostmcghosty]

Except you conveniently overlooked the posts that said your data was outdated. They have one of the highest mortality rates in the developed world, forget just the US.

That wasn't my data. So why should I treat it like it was addressing me.

What I actually did was do some quick searches once I read that post and came to my own conclusion.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-death-rate/ 2013 Not "prior to 2011"

It is low. I admit that. But it isn't the lowest as OP and his non American article implies. They make it seem like a Texas exclusive problem. Also, Infant mortality rate has gone up in America overall.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/01/health...ncreasing-why/

Story highlights
Rate of U.S. women dying due to pregnancy and childbirth more than doubled in 25 years, per the CDC

So what? Texas push for pro life has an effect that goes back in time now?

Look. I am not supporting this at all. I don't like how Texas legislators are trying to go around and back door ban abortion. But acting like texas is the absolute worst, has women and babies dying at a higher rate than any other state, and is the only state that had increases in infant mortality, is blatantly false.

So making comments on that basis is showing either ignorance, or desire to bash a state regardless of the facts.


Updated 9:10 AM ET, Fri December 11, 2015 Not prior to 2011

More excerpts: It's hard to comprehend how the United States, one of the wealthiest nations in the world, is now one of only eight countries -- including Afghanistan and South Sudan -- where the number of women dying as a result of pregnancy and childbirth is going up.

[May90]

It is, because no market in the world is completely unregulated. What we see time and time again is that lack of marketplace competition for a given good or service drives up costs for the consumer; marketplace competition is simply not feasible when industrial, geographic, or other outside limitations place limits on feasible consumer options (schools, prisons, health care etc just being some examples of this).

Yes, I think the whole idea of supply-demand balance is too idealistic. Demand for certain things, such as healthcare or housing, is insane, because everyone needs these things, badly - and the companies providing these things gain a huge leverage on the customers, since they know: the customers WILL have to purchase these goods.
Plus, a completely unrestricted market will simply end up being dominated by a few monopolies, which will remove any freedom from the market.

Any freedom, including freedom of the market, needs protection by the society. And same way, such basic human rights as healthcare, education, housing, nutrition even - should be guaranteed, no matter what lifestyle the person chooses and what starting conditions they have. And the US, being the strongest and the richest country in the world, definitely can guarantee these rights to everyone.

[xChurch]

That wasn't my data. So why should I treat it like it was addressing me.

What I actually did was do some quick searches once I read that post and came to my own conclusion.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-death-rate/ 2013 Not "prior to 2011"

It is low. I admit that. But it isn't the lowest as OP and his non American article claims. Also, Infant mortality rate has gone up in America overall.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/01/health...ncreasing-why/



So what? Texas push for pro life has an effect that goes back in time now?

Look. I am not supporting this at all. I don't like how Texas legislators are trying to go around and back door ban abortion. But acting like texas is the absolute worst, has women and babies dying at a higher rate than any other state, and is the only state that had increases in infant mortality, is blatantly false.

So making comments on that basis is showing either ignorance, or desire to bash a state regardless of the facts.


Updated 9:10 AM ET, Fri December 11, 2015 Not prior to 2011

More excerpts: It's hard to comprehend how the United States, one of the wealthiest nations in the world, is now one of only eight countries -- including Afghanistan and South Sudan -- where the number of women dying as a result of pregnancy and childbirth is going up.

It's pretty easy to tell why the rates are going up though. Less access to health care tends to have the nasty side effect of causing more deaths. You can't deny there has been a very strong pro-life drive in the last 10 or so years not to mention it's always been a constant sticking point in some way or another. And unfortunately they are going after abortions in a type of scorched earth way.

[Ghostmcghosty]

Yes, I think the whole idea of supply-demand balance is too idealistic. Demand for certain things, such as healthcare or housing, is insane, because everyone needs these things, badly - and the companies providing these things gain a huge leverage on the customers, since they know: the customers WILL have to purchase these goods.
Plus, a completely unrestricted market will simply end up being dominated by a few monopolies, which will remove any freedom from the market.

Any freedom, including freedom of the market, needs protection by the society. And same way, such basic human rights as healthcare, education, housing, nutrition even - should be guaranteed, no matter what lifestyle the person chooses and what starting conditions they have. And the US, being the strongest and the richest country in the world, definitely can guarantee these rights to everyone.

To be honest, I kinda dislike the idea of health insurance. They actively try to not pay for your healthcare. That is insane. Even car insurance agencies are not that bad. I get into an accident, they pay for repairs. Sure, they charge me more if I crash a lot, but they pay.

Health insurance will actively fight tooth and nail to not pay, and downright refuse to cover certain care. Car insurance doesn't tell you that they will not pay for you diagnostic that the mechanic wants to do to help find additional issues. They just pay (for the most part).

I know someone will argue semantics and nitpick some irrelevant part of my post (they shall be ignored) but the point is that health insurance companies are downright criminal. If you pay for insurance, and it is lined out what is covered, they should be subject to heavy lawsuits if they ever try and refuse to pay for treatment.

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty easy to tell why the rates are going up though. Less access to health care tends to have the nasty side effect of causing more deaths. You can't deny there has been a very strong pro-life drive in the last 10 or so years not to mention it's always been a constant sticking point in some way or another. And unfortunately they are going after abortions in a type of scorched earth way.

Look. I hear ya. I am just saying that people using this as an excuse to bash texas are doing no good here.

The United States has issues with healthcare we still need to workout. And what is weird is that even with the ACA, this shit still went up? It really makes no sense and we should really look into it. If it is indeed pro life backers, then address it with facts. Show the numbers and deem them unfit to be listened to on the basis of preserving life. Try to get a pro-life person to argue against measures that save lives. It will be funny.

Instead of isolating this to a "Hurr durr Texas is backwards" thread, we should be talking about why the United States is supposedly a world leader, spends so much money on health care, and yet our stats are still poor and actually getting worse.

[xChurch]

Look. I hear ya. I am just saying that people using this as an excuse to bash texas are doing no good here.

The United States has issues with healthcare we still need to workout. And what is weird is that even with the ACA, this shit still went up? It really makes no sense and we should really look into it. If it is indeed pro life backers, then address it with facts. Show the numbers and deem them unfit to be listened to on the basis of preserving life. Try to get a pro-life person to argue against measures that save lives. It will be funny.

Instead of isolating this to a "Hurr durr Texas is backwards" thread, we should be talking about why the United States is supposedly a world leader, spends so much money on health care, and yet our stats are still poor and actually getting worse.

I can tell you why right now, because in the US, health care is a for-profit industry, and when a company has a guaranteed customer base, they can change whatever they want for services. In some cases, the money is even subsidized by the Government who is notoriously bad at sorting out the good charges from the bad, due to poor regulation and funding. Get corporations out of healthcare and you'd see a large quality of life increase.

[alexw]

I don't know why the US is so far behind the rest of the first world in some regards... This is so strange. The wealthiest, the most influential country in the world - can't afford universal healthcare and free education, something even some extremely poor third world countries have? I just don't get it.

Inertia and vested interests. There are some seriously powerful and wealthy groups that profit immensely from the health-gouge-care system.

Change it to a much more efficient single payer type system similar to what everyone else uses?

Much less profit and for some closure of their business.

Oh and add in the republican crazies who scream communism if any government action is proposed on the issue and you have a toxic brew.

[Dasffion]

It's alright. I like Austin myself. It's surprisingly greener than I expected. And the people are much more liberal than people like OP make them out to be.

I don't agree with all their rules, but I would prefer to live there vs some Northern states I have been in.

I'm glad you are open minded and not simply blacklisting an entire region because of political mumbo jumbo. Texas isn't Liberal hating teabaggers, Chicago isn't a gang controlled cesspool, and not everyone in California is having abortions left and right. ANyone making such stupid generalizations is ignorant.

Austin is an island of blue in a sea of red. Yes Austin is very liberal but go north into Willamson county and you're back to super conservative. I've lived here for 23 years.

[Kapadons]

Austin is an island of blue in a sea of red. Yes Austin is very liberal but go north into Willamson county and you're back to super conservative. I've lived here for 23 years.

And south is SA which is blue. Most large cities in Texas are blue or blue ish while the rural areas are red. Probably because the cities are where minorities live. And they wouldn't vote red if they would get a millions dollars for doing so.

[Ghostpanther]

This is less about abortion imo and more about the fact that Texas is overall a conservative state (outside of some urban centers) that tends to view healthcare spending on poor people as socialism.

We live in the wealthiest nation in the world. We can afford quality, universal, low to moderate cost healthcare for every single individual in this country. We can either start viewing health care as a basic human right or we can let people get sick and die due to lack of access to health care.

Time to wake up.

Well said Celista. I agree. Even tho I am pro life however. But not against abortion in all cases.

[Dasffion]

I'll go with C. Everett Koop's assessment of pro-life vs maternal mortality...

Being a pediatric surgeon And not an obgyn he's probably never had to deal with an ectopic pregnancy. You would think he'd have learned about it in school or his career though.

[May90]

To be honest, I kinda dislike the idea of health insurance. They actively try to not pay for your healthcare. That is insane. Even car insurance agencies are not that bad. I get into an accident, they pay for repairs. Sure, they charge me more if I crash a lot, but they pay.

Health insurance will actively fight tooth and nail to not pay, and downright refuse to cover certain care. Car insurance doesn't tell you that they will not pay for you diagnostic that the mechanic wants to do to help find additional issues. They just pay (for the most part).

I know someone will argue semantics and nitpick some irrelevant part of my post (they shall be ignored) but the point is that health insurance companies are downright criminal. If you pay for insurance, and it is lined out what is covered, they should be subject to heavy lawsuits if they ever try and refuse to pay for treatment.

I somewhat agree with this. I don't understand why insurance companies in the US are allowed to act the way they do. I don't mind the idea of commercial health insurance in general, but there should be alternative of a free one provided by the government - which covers, at least, the most essential services.

Inertia and vested interests. There are some seriously powerful and wealthy groups that profit immensely from the health-gouge-care system.

Change it to a much more efficient single payer type system similar to what everyone else uses?

Much less profit and for some closure of their business.

Oh and add in the republican crazies who scream communism if any government action is proposed on the issue and you have a toxic brew.

I suppose. But it used to be the same in other countries in the past, and then something changed. Can it change similarly in the US as well? Sanders was relatively close to getting a nomination, and even Clinton assumed his rhetoric about free education and healthcare. Perhaps the times are changing here as well...

[Ghostpanther]

Being a pediatric surgeon And not an obgyn he's probably never had to deal with an ectopic pregnancy. You would think he'd have learned about it in school or his career though.

Yeah. I have no issues with taking a life to save a life. After all, we do it all the time in other ways.

[BannedForViews]

Being a pediatric surgeon And not an obgyn he's probably never had to deal with an ectopic pregnancy. You would think he'd have learned about it in school or his career though.

you have though right, and clearly are more informed on such things?

[Dch48]

The policies in Texas are the best in the US. They should be even stricter.

[Hammerfest]

Being a pediatric surgeon And not an obgyn he's probably never had to deal with an ectopic pregnancy. You would think he'd have learned about it in school or his career though.

Seeing as how a fetus gestating anywhere other than the uterus won't typically survive anyway, it's not the same thing when you abort that kind of pregnancy. It's a choice between a dead fetus and a dead fetus/mother... which isn't much of a choice for most people.

[Ghostpanther]

you have though right, and clearly are more informed on such things?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...n/CON-20024262 took me maybe 2 mins. to google that. It can certainly be life threatening.

[THE Bigzoman]

The finding comes from a report, appearing in the September issue of the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology, that the maternal mortality rate in the United States increased between 2000 and 2014, even while the rest of the world succeeded in reducing its rate. Excluding California, where maternal mortality declined, and Texas, where it surged, the estimated number of maternal deaths per 100,000 births rose to 23.8 in 2014 from 18.8 in 2000 – or about 27%.

oh my god..

So maternal mortality went from and eighteenth of a percent to a 24th of a percent over the last 14 years?

Oh my god. Those bigoted fuckwitted conservatives!


A whole 0.006 percent. We're really seeing the costs of their backwards policies.

[Crissi]

Seeing as how a fetus gestating anywhere other than the uterus won't typically survive anyway, it's not the same thing when you abort that kind of pregnancy. It's a choice between a dead fetus and a dead fetus/mother... which isn't much of a choice for most people.

And that's generally what people mean when they say sbort to save the mother.

[Wells]

oh my god..

So maternal mortality went from and eighteenth of a percent to a 24th of a percent over the last 14 years?

Oh my god. Those bigoted fuckwitted conservatives!


A whole

Its dropping in most of the rest of the developed world. This is reasonable cause for concern.