More women should freeze their eggs and focus on their careers.

[GennGreymane]

Seriously though.... why are people on this forum so obsessed with how women run their lives?

[Deleted]

My wife finished grad school at 29, got a good job as a research scientist. Had our first kid at 32, took leave after the birth, went back to work, switched jobs so we could move back closer to where our families are (companies, not type of job), expecting our second kid next month at 34. Going to take leave and go back to work again. Since we have a family and a successful career, we're bad parents I guess?

If you're both focussing on work so much that you are neglecting your kids, you are. Your first kid is 2 years old. How much time do both of you spend with it, how often is someone else taking care of it? I assume you both work at least 8 hours a day, possibly more, which doesn't leave a lot of time to care for a kid, much less 2 kids. Honestly, either pick a career or your family. Spending time on one will ultimately mean spending less time on the other. That's just logical, isn't it?

Also it's really dickish of women to work in a company and then regularly take a paid leave because they decide to have more and more kids. We had a woman working at our company, had a baby, was gone for several months, came back, couple of months later "guess what guys I'm pregnant again"...
The company was bought shortly after that, so new management let her go.
To be honest it made me happy. She's of no value to the company that way, she's just being a huge pain in the ass.

So again: pick one.
You can't have it both ways.

But aside from that, if you possess any reading comprehension, you would've noticed that my problem is with women who want to first focus on their career and then have a kid when they're older, like, you know, the fucking topic of this thread.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

If you're both focussing on work so much that you are neglecting your kids, you are. Your first kid is 2 years old. How much time do both of you spend with it, how often is someone else taking care of it? I assume you both work at least 8 hours a day, possibly more, which doesn't leave a lot of time to care for a kid, much less 2 kids. Honestly, either pick a career or your family. Spending time on one will ultimately mean spending less time on the other. That's just logical, isn't it?

True, our son is in childcare during the week, and we just have the several hours in the evening to spend with him and then weekends. That doesn't automatically make us bad parents. You can have people who are home with their kids all day but don't engage with them, the quality of the time is a relevant as the quantity. We play with him and make the most of the time we have. He is happy and healthy and has a strong bond with us.
You can also argue quite strongly that being in a social setting with other children in an active engaging environment is good for them developmentally, and can be better than if it was just him and I or my wife all day.

But aside from that, if you possess any reading comprehension, you would've noticed that my problem is with women who want to first focus on their career and then have a kid when they're older, like, you know, the fucking topic of this thread.

And I was simply saying that that approach is not necessary, and it is possible to manage a career and family at the same time with two dedicated, involved parents. How is that not relevant to the fucking topic of this thread?

[Deleted]

True, our son is in childcare during the week, and we just have the several hours in the evening to spend with him and then weekends. That doesn't automatically make us bad parents.

Yes, it does.

[Halyon]

Yes, it does.

...how. Kids have to learn responsibility from somewere, have role-models that don't pigeon-hole them into specific views. If their kids are safe, loved and well-cared for, then they are stellar parents.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Yes, it does.

Based on what?
Is our child unhappy? Is our child not bonded with us? Is our child not developing well? Does our child not enjoy playing with his friends at childcare? Are our childs needs not being met?

[May90]

General rules and tendencies like:

Humans generally and as a rule have 5 toes on each foot - yet there are plenty of people with more (and perhaps less), and that's fine

There is a lot of variation in nature: that doesn't mean there aren't very consistent patterns (about human and primate societies, gender, what men are like and what women are like, etc) that we would absolutely accept as being generalisable, but for purely ideological reasons they are as taboo as heliocentrism was in the 16th century

If you want to be a creationist or a Catholic, it's your science-denying faith, feel free; but you have to know that until you're willing to be disturbed by the observable facts, you're not going to find those lovely consistent orbits

The question is how consistent those patterns is. You've said many times, for example, that we should go back to traditional families, with women being housewives. However, you see today a huge number of women focusing on their careers; probably the vast majority of women, actually, work on their career, either along with raising children, or without children at all.

So the pattern is, women, just like men, tend to work on their careers. So you are wrong on this count. You are also wrong on other counts too: if you can name something that is prevalent in women more than men, to a level of consistency similar to that of 5 toes on each foot - I would really like to hear it.

[Beefsquatch]

I hate this stupid rhetoric. It's a myth

There are not orphanages with kids lined up just waiting for someone to sign for them - there are foster homes in state custody, and custody with birth parents or relatives can be extremely hard to navigate. International adoption is even more difficult - it sounds very nice and all to adopt an orphan from whatever poverty-stricken country but the process is extremely expensive. In both cases it takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of risk for heartbreak if your adoption doesn't work out - which can happen at every stage in the process, including last minute. While absolutely those who adopt should be commended, the process can easily take more time and money than freezing one's eggs.

Normally, Shinra topics are lol worthy but he makes a great point here.

There's also the fact that very few that would want to raise a child that isn't "theirs". It sounds shitty, but it's true.

[Deleted]

...how. Kids have to learn responsibility from somewere, have role-models that don't pigeon-hole them into specific views. If their kids are safe, loved and well-cared for, then they are stellar parents.

Based on what?
Is our child unhappy? Is our child not bonded with us? Is our child not developing well? Does our child not enjoy playing with his friends at childcare? Are our childs needs not being met?

"We barely spend any time with our kid, how are we bad parents? Our career is just more important to us."
Wow.

You are actually being serious, aren't you?

[Enthusiastic Steward]

"We barely spend any time with our kid, how are we bad parents? Our career is just more important to us."
Wow.

You are actually being serious, aren't you?

I am trying to ascertain what your criteria is. As it stands, it seems like it is simply "If your child is in daycare, you are a bad parent. If you stay home with your child, you are a good parent." By that metric, us both working but having a happy, healthy child whose needs are met, is loved and loves us, and enjoys having the social experience and development at childcare is bad, because we are not at home; but if my wife sat home all day with him, but beyond feeding him and changing his pants sat around and watched daytime tv while he played by himself alone is good, because someone is home.

Is this what you actually believe? Does the child's happiness and development matter? Do you see a difference between quality and quantity of time spent? What do you consider "barely any time"? We play together several hours every day and spend the weekends hanging out and doing activities. Please give an acceptable number of hours. If he's playing on the floor but the parent is ignoring him watching a movie does that count as "time spent" simply because the parent is home in the middle of the day? Or are all parents who are home all day "good" parents regardless? If not, explain why.

Also, do you think that social interactive development is important to a child? Do you see learning to socialize and play as a priority for healthy development? Why or why not?

[TwistedSkull]

Shinra1 the poor mans Tennisace.

But honestly let the women choose for themselves.

[May90]

"We barely spend any time with our kid, how are we bad parents? Our career is just more important to us."
Wow.

You are actually being serious, aren't you?

Define "barely spend any time". If you are working full time, 8 hours a day + 1 hour break, then, assuming you sleep 8 hours a day and spend 1 hour a day moving to the workplace and back, you still have like 6 hours a day left on caring for the child, and two full days on the weekend. Plus there are two parents, not just one. I'd say it is PLENTY of time, maybe even too much, if the parents actually spend all this time with kids.

So yeah, you absolutely can focus on career and be a great parent at the same time, in a country with developed system of childcare.

[Deleted]

When future generations look back in time, they will classify our time as era when humans decided to take on mother nature in every single feasable way.

The future is not going to be about some utopia of minimalism and inhumanity, if anything they will be better in tune and better understand our cycle as beings.

But until then, YEAH FUCK NATURE LETS FUCKING START SLEEPING DURING THE DAY AND LIVING IN THE NIGHT AWW YEAAH!

[Ghostmcghosty]

When future generations look back in time, they will classify our time as era when humans decided to take on mother nature in every single feasable way.

The future is not going to be about some utopia of minimalism and inhumanity, if anything they will be better in tune and better understand our cycle as beings.

But until then, YEAH FUCK NATURE LETS FUCKING START SLEEPING DURING THE DAY AND LIVING IN THE NIGHT AWW YEAAH!

I do that now...I am serious. I am kind of a vampire.

[Halyon]

When future generations look back in time, they will classify our time as era when humans decided to take on mother nature in every single feasable way.

The future is not going to be about some utopia of minimalism and inhumanity, if anything they will be better in tune and better understand our cycle as beings.

But until then, YEAH FUCK NATURE LETS FUCKING START SLEEPING DURING THE DAY AND LIVING IN THE NIGHT AWW YEAAH!

Sooo, about IVF...

[TwoNineMarine]

Adoption > Everything else.

But first we need to fix our fucked up adoption system.

[Scathbais]

The blame lies solely on men who don't want to settle. Most women you'll find want to have children when they find the right guy but these partners often do not want to settle down and you hear this all the time about men claiming that women have tried to trap them with a pregnancy. Let's not forget the biggest proponents of abortions are lousy and opportunistic men who want to have sex without any responsibility.

Many women who freeze their eggs do it because they have been backed into a corner as their body betrays them as they get older and their fertility wanes. Staying in a committed relationship for 4+ years only to not have it work out puts women at a greater disadvantage coming out of any breakup because they have wasted valuable time, that is, the best years that they could have gotten pregnant which is between 19-26 years of age. Men just move on because unlike women they don't have a reproductive clock.

Women with traditional family values that want a man to act like a man and want to be treated like a lady don't generally have these issues. It is women who drank the feminist cool aid who send out the signals to men that they should play a while but not stay! It is a vicious cycle. Men don't want to stay because women become cynical, career focused, non-ladies, which pushes men further away, which further increases women's cynicism.

[LilSaihah]

I am a man, and I'm not really attracted to the opposite gender's massive tits.
Gay men also are rarely attracted to the opposite gender's massive tits.

curses, foiled again

i would've had you this time may if not for your meddling homosexuality

we shall meet again!

[Deleted]

You are a dirty feminist. End of topic.

[Draco-Onis]

whats wrong with getting married and have children?
oh thats right, the regressive left demands that we destroy the family unit

carry on

Economic reality is the regressive left now? if you want to put blame at least have the balls to tell the truth. Both the left and right policies have led us here, you can no longer support a family by yourself and live nicely in most cases both people have to work that leaves little room for responsible people to want to raise / have children.