[Outlaw] Did i got it right? (General Outlaw Questions)

[Tyrarolls]

Hey guys - long time rogue here (switched to rogue in tbc - played until end of mop and didn't play a single day on wod)
I lurk here daily since i started again few days ago and i just want to make sure i got things right for Legion (rogue wise).

First of all, from my understanding all 3 speccs are quite fine and Outlaw will most likely be a solid specc for Mythik + and raiding in general - thats why i decided to play it. Assasin as second specc, though.

I am really for all your posts and appreciate it a lot. Makes things a lot easier for people like me who just started again.

So here are some questions/statement which i d appreciate if you can confirm/correct.

Talents:

1.) Ghostly Strike is dps increase (eventhough a minor one) - and you just try to keep it up 100% of the time (?!)

2.) Deeper Stratagem is always our way to go talent in Tier 2 (?!)

3.) Is Alacrity and Marked of Death always our way to go Tier 6+7 talents or can Death from Above become better any time when we dont have "reset" targets for Death from Above?

4.) Do i use Marked of Death on CD or save it up to x seconds if i know i have to reroll soon?

General/Combo Points:
1.) It doesn't matter that much if you finish with 5 cps or 6 cps, however 5 cps is a dps increase (?!)

2.) If you have Shark infested Waters active, finishing with 6 cps is better because of the increased crit chance (?!)

3.) Do i also fish for buffs in dungeons/mythic + while trashgroups or is Run Through better (and if it depends on mob hp, when would you say its worth to just go for 5/6 cp finisher)

Roll the Bones
1.) You always fish for 2 buffs, no matter which combination (?!)

2.) Don't AR if Buried Treasure is active (?!)

3.) Do i ever keep a single buff?
3a.) i.e. Shark infested Waters if i have to burst adds and don't wanna risk to not get 2 buffs with the next roll
3b.) i.e. keep True Bearing if AR is active or not on cd but i'm about to use it?

Adrenaline Rush
1.) Don't wait too long (for 2 buffs) to use AR (after pull)

2.) Do i wait for 2 buffs or just use it while getting 2 buffs infight (if i don't have to save it for burst/cleave)?

3.) I don't use Quick draw proccs while AR active and im in danger to cap my energy (?!)


Blade furry
1.) Do i also fish for 2 buffs if i have to burst cleave? (with and without AR up)


Also a bit offtopic: I got BS and JC on 700. Now im not sure which will be the benefits of keeping them on 800 for dps increase (like..do i still have extra sockets and better gems?)


Sorry for so many weird questions...
/e: sorry for bad london..not native english

[Celfydd]

1.) It doesn't matter that much if you finish with 5 cps or 6 cps, however 5 cps is a dps increase (?!)

Clearly finishing with 5 CPs is a dps decrease over finishing with 6. However it is not as much of a dps decrease as using another builder instead of a finisher. Does that make more sense?

[Battlebeard]

For your talent questions

Talents:

1.) Ghostly Strike is dps increase (eventhough a minor one) - and you just try to keep it up 100% of the time (?!)

You should NOT pick Ghostly Strike, both Swordmaster (top pick) and Quick Draw (almost as good) are better choices.

2.) Deeper Stratagem is always our way to go talent in Tier 2 (?!)

Sadly, yes. Boring talent but it's the best.

3.) Is Alacrity and Marked of Death always our way to go Tier 6+7 talents or can Death from Above become better any time when we dont have "reset" targets for Death from Above?

Yes, always Alacrity and MFD.

4.) Do i use Marked of Death on CD or save it up to x seconds if i know i have to reroll soon?

Depends on the fight and the situation. Generally, use it on CD but sometimes it can be benefitial to save it.

[Halobob87]

Talents.
1. I'm pretty sure that the other options are better.
2. Yes by far.
3. Alacrity 90% of time. Cannonball barage is ok for levelling or when u can use it on cd on many target. DFA is ok when there are a lot of low hp target and u can't snipe effectivly for MfD resets.
4. Yes. Unless you know that's an add wave coming.

General.
1. 6 cp is a dps gain (more damage, + 20% chance of a second cp refund), but using a cp builder a 5cp is a bigger dps lose (you are going to waste the extra cp from saber slash/broadsiders)
2 always use finisher at 5p becouse wasting cps is a bigger dps lose anyway.
3. On thing that are going to die in 3-4 gcd don't bother wasting cp in rerolls.

Rtb

1. Hard to say. if the single buff is siw u should never reroll. U don't reroll true baring when adrenaline rush is ready to use as well. Otherwise you should fish for 2 buffs. U can delay rerolling if there are short living adds coming in seconds, expecially if u got jolly roger/ buried treasure.
2. U should use adrenaline rush if u have true bearing up. Capping energy during adrenaline rush is not a big deal.
3. never reroll true baering when u are ready to use adrenaline rush.
3a. You should not reroll siw unless u have to fish for true bearing
3b. Yes

Adrenaline rush.
1. Use adrenaline rush+ artifact active ability whenever u get true baring (but do not delay too much). U must have true bearing up during adrenaline rush.
2. Watch above
3. wasting cp is a lot worse then wasting energy, expecially during adrenaline rush.

Blade flurry.
1. Keeping in mind things said above, u always fish for 2 buffs.

[Tyrarolls]

you guys are awesome - thanks.

about the cp: obviously 6 cps does more damage but i mean if im at 5 cp i d never waste a a quick draw procc or do another saber slash right.

also interesting that we should keep
40% crit buff ...i thought the "rule" would be to always fish for any 2.

so atm you want the rule is:
either shark or 2 buffs
unless AR is about to come up - then go for True bearing.

now one followup question: lets say i have 20-30 sec remaining on 2 (or even 3 buffs) - but ar comes up. do i still reroll for true bearing or keep the 2(3) buffs

also nice to hear about ghostly strike..i somewhere read its a dmg increase ...so the sword mastery is the best one by default or just with scaling gear (so quick draw is maybe better in the start?!)

[Deleted]

also nice to hear about ghostly strike..i somewhere read its a dmg increase ...so the sword mastery is the best one by default or just with scaling gear (so quick draw is maybe better in the start?!)

It's a minor dps increase, take the comment from Battlebeard with a grain of salt - he's basically quoting the icy-veins guide which isn't up2date. The thing is, if u let it drop like ever and don't get it to 100% uptime it will be worse. You should join the Rogue Discord for current theorycrafting stuff.

[Tyrarolls]

It's a minor dps increase, take the comment form Battlebeard with a grain of salt - he's basically quoting the icy-veins guide which isn't up2date. The thing is, if u let it drop like ever and don't get it to 100% uptime it will be worse. You should join the Rogue Discord for current theorycrafting stuff.

mind sharing me the rogue discord? im really sorry..im totally out of date with anything.

[Deleted]

mind sharing me the rogue discord? im really sorry..im totally out of date with anything.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...now-on-Discord

[Bromosapien]

You should NOT pick Ghostly Strike, both Swordmaster (top pick) and Quick Draw (almost as good) are better choices.

Not according to the current t18 sim

[Halobob87]

Not according to the current t18 sim

T18 as you said. Pre patch is useless. Both quick draw and swordmaster are better option at 110

[Deleted]

Not according to the current t18 sim

Mind linking the current t18 sim?

Also yes i agree. 7 days left before pre patch dps will never matter again

[Halobob87]

you guys are awesome - thanks.

about the cp: obviously 6 cps does more damage but i mean if im at 5 cp i d never waste a a quick draw procc or do another saber slash right.

also interesting that we should keep
40% crit buff ...i thought the "rule" would be to always fish for any 2.

so atm you want the rule is:
either shark or 2 buffs
unless AR is about to come up - then go for True bearing.

now one followup question: lets say i have 20-30 sec remaining on 2 (or even 3 buffs) - but ar comes up. do i still reroll for true bearing or keep the 2(3) buffs

also nice to hear about ghostly strike..i somewhere read its a dmg increase ...so the sword mastery is the best one by default or just with scaling gear (so quick draw is maybe better in the start?!)

Yep, wasting cp is a big no-no.

You don't reroll siw (atm is 25% crit, not 40%) for 2 reason: you don't know if you are gona get 2 buff, and, most important, siw alone is pretty close or even stronger than any 2 buff combo that don't have siw.

Your third question is a bit hard to answer: unless you know that your next adrenaline rush will be the last one, you should fish for true bearing even if you got 2 decent buffs when adrenaline rush is about to come back. Same for 3 buff. BUT if the 3 buffs are siw, jolly roger and buried treasure with ~30 duration left (pretty niche situation anyway) you could do 2 things:
1. U know that you are not gona waste a adrenaline rush cast during those 30 sec, in these case, just old adrenaline rush for ~15 sec then start rerolling for true bearing.
2. You are going to lose one adrenaline rush cast for sure if u hold it, in this case just pop it (this could be the case for your second/ third adrenaline rush cast) and hope for true baring+ something else as your next roll.
But as i said that's a pretty niche situation. Your second and probably third cast of adrenaline rush will be cast inside your first true baring roll anyway, so, at the end of your first roll, your adrenaline rush should be on 90 sec cd: those are basically 2 full roll the bones cast, with AR on cd, and if u get another true bearing+ something roll as the first past opener roll, you are going to get another use of adrenaline rush at the end of the said roll, and now you are going to fish for true bearing. If you get on second pist opener roll, even better! You are just going to use ar during is duration. If u don't get true baring on neither of those roll, start fishing then rise and repeat.

[Tyrarolls]

thanks fam.
i dont know how i thought its 40% crit but yes its 25% as you said

so i stick with shark, or fish for 2 buffs..if ar is going to be used (off cd and readyy to go) i want to have the true baring.

now when i know my AR comes up in..x seconds...lets say 15...
when do i start to fish for Ar? i mean i obviously want the proper buff before i pop AR right.
and how many seconds should the buff lasts? i.e. i have a true baring buff remaining (in a 2 buff scenario) - 25 seconds left.
now i guess i just start to fish for a new true bearing with maybe 5 seconds left on AR...and try to grab one asap to not delay AR too much...right?

[Halobob87]

U should start rerolling when your rtb buff is only 10 sec left (or less if the buff is really good) or 10 sec before adrenaline rush come out from cd. True bearing should last the full duration of adrenaline rush (or at last for 12-13 sec inside it), then, if true bearing is a single buff, you can reroll it. Anyway, as i exposed above, outlaw rotation is much more ciclical then what some one could think, unless you have really bad luck, in this case there are a lot of possible situations that you should really try to figure by your self, keeping in mind that your top priority remain : 1 always have true baring during ar (unless you are delaying that cast a lot ); 2 never waste cp

[GT4]

T18 as you said. Pre patch is useless. Both quick draw and swordmaster are better option at 110

Simulationcraft has Ghostly Strike over Swordmaster/Quickdraw by ~10k DPS for both the T19P and the T19M profile. I'd really like to see your sources.

[Deleted]

Simulationcraft has Ghostly Strike over Swordmaster/Quickdraw by ~10k DPS for both the T19P and the T19M profile. I'd really like to see your sources.

I guess the all mighty Icy-Veins Guide :>. To be fair, not a lot of people check other sources and rely on just one guide. It's not even the Icy-Veins Guide is bad, it's just all the new stuff, simcraft modules need time to be ready and it didn't got updated.

[Deleted]

Simulationcraft has Ghostly Strike over Swordmaster/Quickdraw by ~10k DPS for both the T19P and the T19M profile. I'd really like to see your sources.

Where are you getting that info from? The simcraft site onyl shows t18 profiles for me

[Halobob87]

Simulationcraft has Ghostly Strike over Swordmaster/Quickdraw by ~10k DPS for both the T19P and the T19M profile. I'd really like to see your sources.

Are the sims finally working ? Anyway, yes, ghostly strike is probably going to outscale other options.

[Deleted]

Are the sims finally working ? Anyway, yes, ghostly strike is probably going to outscale other options.

They arent done yet. I dont even see the point of discussing whats best right now seeing how much work still needs to go into them.

[Halobob87]

They arent done yet. I dont even see the point of discussing whats best right now seeing how much work still needs to go into them.

Agree. But being ghostly strike a flat damage increase, it will probably scale really well with gear, , but i really doubt that it will be better during early progression