Invasion Final Stage 'Bad Design'

[Cempa]

Over all most would agree this pre launch event if fun, added lots of cool stuff and a new way to power level alts and get super fun gear .. BUT I need to say that final stage is so unforgiving to melee what ended happening is tag the boss and run away .. What happens next? Boss runs around wiping ranged and we all have a nice rez party .. over .. and over .. and over again ..

It might have been intended but any one who has ever wiped several times would tell you its not fun at all ..

So now the prevailing tactic is Tag --> Get out of combat --> mount flying mount and afk ...

[Murderdoll]

So far for me, the worst thing is that it ends so abruptly and the next part is not presented to us yet. I searched the forums to make sure it wasnt a bug because it felt like it just didnt give me the next part even though it gave me the context of it.

That is not good quest design at all.

[Puri]

I would'nt even mind dying on the boss (over and over again), but if you are dead and the boss dies you won't get the kill XP.

And there are some skills that don't scale very well with level, like those flame patches. If they were initially targeting a higher level player, the ground will kill any low level player instantly.
Or the curse of doom, where you can see it ticking for 12 seconds and there is nothing you can do about it on many classes (at least if you got it twice).

So yes, tagging and waiting it out seems to be the most reasonable action.

[Amerissis]

Uhm, you are doing something wrong. I'm playing melee and I rarely die. The only ones dying are tanks and stupid dps who get aggro. Other then that, pay attention to mechanics and run out of shit on the ground (or in, in case of Shadow Gale).

[Hctaz]

Uhm, you are doing something wrong. I'm playing melee and I rarely die. The only ones dying are tanks and stupid dps who get aggro. Other then that, pay attention to mechanics and run out of shit on the ground (or in, in case of Shadow Gale).

Probably referring to lower level stuff. Some of the mechanics one shot lower level players because they don't scale. By that I mean if there's a level 100 player and the boss casts a debuff on them that explodes for damage, it will hit you for a full level 100 attack. If you're less than level 100 you're guaranteed to die.

[plato13]

Uhm, you are doing something wrong. I'm playing melee and I rarely die. The only ones dying are tanks and stupid dps who get aggro. Other then that, pay attention to mechanics and run out of shit on the ground (or in, in case of Shadow Gale).

Looks like someone is playing on a PvE server

[Ravingmad]

The last boss is meant to be done in group/raid. Since nobody communicate or group, as a single melee class you'll be struggling to survive on most boss encounter. The worst is when theres no tank and you see people running around and dying one after another.

Are world bosses bad design? Same thing applies here. If theres no tank/healers, you'll die often and its gonna be a painfull kill. Theres a difference between Bad Design and Wrong approach.

[Amerissis]

Probably referring to lower level stuff. Some of the mechanics one shot lower level players because they don't scale. By that I mean if there's a level 100 player and the boss casts a debuff on them that explodes for damage, it will hit you for a full level 100 attack. If you're less than level 100 you're guaranteed to die.

That's true, but it's just as unforgiving for ranged then, so I doubt the OP was talking about low levels. If he is, then as I said, it's just as unforgiving for ranged (I die to Shadow Gale before I can even reach the boss, or I am close and die to the next spell, because I can't run away fast enough).

Looks like someone is playing on a PvE server

That is completely besides the point, isn't it? This is about the bosses being unforgiving to melee, not about getting killed in PvP.

[Neryaf]

Uhm, you are doing something wrong. I'm playing melee and I rarely die. The only ones dying are tanks and stupid dps who get aggro. Other then that, pay attention to mechanics and run out of shit on the ground (or in, in case of Shadow Gale).

I was leveling a mage and (since everything is scaled) all the way up to level 99 if I "accidentally" crit with a pyroblast and the tank died I would have agro. It doesn't matter that I was level 32, I got agro and it was a one shot as soon as I ran out of cooldowns. If there was no tank+healer pair of buddies I had no choice other than to Scorch once and hide. Disappointing considering lower levels can really contribute a lot of the bosses HP loss, and I wasn't interested in leeching.

[Kikazz]

The last boss is meant to be done in group/raid. Since nobody communicate or group, as a single melee class you'll be struggling to survive on most boss encounter. The worst is when theres no tank and you see people running around and dying one after another.

Are world bosses bad design? Same thing applies here. If theres no tank/healers, you'll die often and its gonna be a painfull kill. Theres a difference between Bad Design and Wrong approach.

problem isnt just that theres no tanks, its that the healers cant get them target properly, im a 749 Guardian Druid, and with all my cds the boss still hits me for 300k damage, i have 1.2m hp, boss kills me in about 10 seconds without a healer, with a healer in abotu 15 seconds. the damage is tuned stupidly hi.

[Hamacus]

I run these as a healer and make sure I am pumping heals in to the tank and melee group even though we are not grouped up. Not hard to do and there seem to be very few deaths unless people stand in bad forever or there are no other heals.

[Deleted]

i stopped tanking in the invasions because when i am not grouped, i almost never get any heals.

i'm probably lazy for not making a group, but i also only rarely see people inviting to groups in general chat.

autogrouping would be ideal, but i guess blizz wants people to be more social in the upcoming world quests, it's just quite the abrupt change.

- - - Updated - - -

I run these as a healer and make sure I am pumping heals in to the tank and melee group even though we are not grouped up. Not hard to do and there seem to be very few deaths unless people stand in bad forever or there are no other heals.

you are a rare breed then, i only seem to run into a healer with targets target on once in every 10ish invasions orso. but you are right, if someone heals a tank, those bosses are a joke, but if there is no tank, they just run around all the time and it takes forever.

[Illustrathor]

problem isnt just that theres no tanks, its that the healers cant get them target properly, im a 749 Guardian Druid, and with all my cds the boss still hits me for 300k damage, i have 1.2m hp, boss kills me in about 10 seconds without a healer, with a healer in abotu 15 seconds. the damage is tuned stupidly hi.

I Believe it is designed that way on purpose, to get an additional chaotic element in the fight so people die, have to run back, do a bit self healing and run back to the boss.


I Think it comes down to taste... and I think it is kinda nice that way. The bosses twist, turn and interact with so many players that you have to watch out what you are doing. It's not just tank'n'spank free loot ( well, it is but with a bit of a twist ) but more of a chaotic street fight... imo quite fitting for a legion invasion.
The only annoying thing is the graveyards are stil faction bound. Sometimes you have to walk a long time back to your corpse, so let every player spawn at the nearest graveyard for the duration of the invasion event would have been nice.
And the only real mean bosses, those with these AOE Eye of something effects are annoying for everyone. I play rogue and have to say, he dies only if I'm not looking what I'm doing but get in a dps frenzy and enjoy to race the other players. Beside that I have no survivavility problems as a melee

[Deleted]

To be honest, I think the brutality of the invasion final bosses for random zergs not co-ordinating (and sometimes just due to how plain mean some of them are) is intended design.

The legion is supposed to be racking up a huge bodycount before we form the class orders and the Kirin'tor teleports to the Broken Isles.

[zox2]

problem isnt just that theres no tanks, its that the healers cant get them target properly, im a 749 Guardian Druid, and with all my cds the boss still hits me for 300k damage, i have 1.2m hp, boss kills me in about 10 seconds without a healer, with a healer in abotu 15 seconds. the damage is tuned stupidly hi.

The best way to tank those bosses is to have a low lvl twink healed by high lvl healers. The caveat being that stupid DHs don't spam throw glaive on the boss...

[Davemetalhead]

So far for me, the worst thing is that it ends so abruptly and the next part is not presented to us yet. I searched the forums to make sure it wasnt a bug because it felt like it just didnt give me the next part even though it gave me the context of it.

That is not good quest design at all.

Wrong topic I'm afraid - this is about the invasions, what you're talking about is the Broken Shore event and the moving of Dalaran - I believe the next part comes this week and it's permanent in the game, even after Legion launches. I agree it seems to end rather abruptly though, I'm not sure why they're staggering that over a couple of weeks instead of releasing it all at once.

[tratra]

I find overall that the implementation of Invasions is rubbish.

The idea behind them was good and the intentions, but they given it 0 time.

You have graveyards without timers getting CD's upon res.

You can get in an invasion as a level 10 and it won't scale down to level 10 but you will be getting a massive amount of XP.

I had a gnome last night and I was lvl 3 while browsing around Dun Mor, which was under invasion.... THERE WAS NO NPC OR ANYTHING. No Zoning no nothing, the whole world was off for the whole invasion.

The XP issue that they have been playing with.

The issue with mobs damage scaling to lower level players.

A lot of issues to mention. It was just an unpolished content patch, like 2 people worked on it in general.

[Deleted]

Uhm, you are doing something wrong. I'm playing melee and I rarely die. The only ones dying are tanks and stupid dps who get aggro. Other then that, pay attention to mechanics and run out of shit on the ground (or in, in case of Shadow Gale).

Nah it's a thing. 720 DH here and I have to often run out of melee range and hang back :/

[Hyve]

I blame the healers. I tank them, and I'm left to basically Self-Heal the entire time. Some bosses I can do that, others I can't.

[kamuimac]

Over all most would agree this pre launch event if fun, added lots of cool stuff and a new way to power level alts and get super fun gear .. BUT I need to say that final stage is so unforgiving to melee what ended happening is tag the boss and run away .. What happens next? Boss runs around wiping ranged and we all have a nice rez party .. over .. and over .. and over again ..

It might have been intended but any one who has ever wiped several times would tell you its not fun at all ..

So now the prevailing tactic is Tag --> Get out of combat --> mount flying mount and afk ...

that because blizzard made 1 fundamental flaw - they clearly meant for people to form 40 man raids to farm the events - but people dont like grouping up and it leads to such design flaws - whenever you find 40 man group its super effective leveling/farming