Frost vs Unholy DK

[Nightpath]

Right now Unholy does great AoE DPS and over time can do some pretty decent DPS even if you aren't really paying attention. Frost is fast, high burst and you have to be on tap to do your job right.

I've shredded multiple people in BG's as Frost...huge burst and almost a gigglefest. Swapping to UH does solid DPS but personally I found Frost to be a bit more involved and as was mentioned Death Strike is a nice HP boost in Frost.

That and sfa gets away from me in Frost

[Tyrannica]

Right now Unholy does great AoE DPS and over time can do some pretty decent DPS even if you aren't really paying attention. Frost is fast, high burst and you have to be on tap to do your job right.

I've shredded multiple people in BG's as Frost...huge burst and almost a gigglefest. Swapping to UH does solid DPS but personally I found Frost to be a bit more involved and as was mentioned Death Strike is a nice HP boost in Frost.

That and sfa gets away from me in Frost

Did a blizz intern just registrate here to write all these lies?

- - - Updated - - -

Frost's currently completely out-damages Unholy, it's not even close. Corpse Shield requires the use of All will Serve and then involves spamming a macro to extend its life. Ghoul dies in seconds and puts a 30 sec CD on summon if you fail to do that. Usually in Arena if people are bursting and I don't use the dismiss macro or get stunned, Corpse shield lasts for a whole 3 seconds or less.

Defensive Wise it's between

Unholy
Corpse Shield or Spell Eater(Longer and slightly larger AMS + Normal IBF + AMS

vs

Frost
Mirror Ball AMS (Removes all Magic effects) + IBF that makes your Death Strike heal for half your total health + White Walker(20% DR on Wraith Walk) or Volatile Shielding(35% stronger AMS with a touch of karma component)

I'd say the way it is right now Frost is completely better than Unholy for arena. Unholy has better utility, lower damage while frost has no utility and probably one of the highest damage in arena.

For RBGs unholy's spread pressure will be a bit better, I think.

You should reverse the roles, because frost will be kited all day long in arenas.

On the other side, frost can and will work in rbgs, people there do not move much and hardly kite at all.

In very big zergs, like altarac, IoC and Trashcan, unholy is better than frost due to the mechanics how damge is done, you can simply stay far away and be still superior on the dmg and kill meter, while frost gets close and probably instantly dies to cc and burst spam.

[Rooskie1993]

gg more dk nerfs

[wholol]

Defensive Wise it's between

Unholy
Corpse Shield or Spell Eater(Longer and slightly larger AMS + Normal IBF + AMS

vs

Frost
Mirror Ball AMS (Removes all Magic effects) + IBF that makes your Death Strike heal for half your total health + White Walker(20% DR on Wraith Walk) or Volatile Shielding(35% stronger AMS with a touch of karma component)

I'd say the way it is right now Frost is completely better than Unholy for arena. Unholy has better utility, lower damage while frost has no utility and probably one of the highest damage in arena.

Wrong.

Read the artifact trait, Deadly Durability: increases the effectiveness of IBF and AMS by 10% at max rank ( the wording in the tooltip is confusing and makes it seem like it's multiplicative but it is a flat 10% increase).

So unholy has 30% IBF and AMS absorbs a total of 40% ( instead of 30 % ) max hp with the artifact trait maxed.

Also, although the frost talent " ice in your veins" does seem incredibly power it fails to remind people that death strike costs 45 runic power which is quite the hefty cost that you might not have if you wish to use it during IBF, basically if you are low and need to heal asap you would need to spend runes first to gain said runic power in order to heal during IBF, now this might not seem like an issue to you but imagine under critical timing where you might not have enough runic power and end up wasting more time than you have to gain said resources.

[Tyrannica]

Wrong.

Read the artifact trait, Deadly Durability: increases the effectiveness of IBF and AMS by 10% at max rank ( the wording in the tooltip is confusing and makes it seem like it's multiplicative but it is a flat 10% increase).

So unholy has 30% IBF and AMS absorbs a total of 40% ( instead of 30 % ) max hp with the artifact trait maxed.

Also, although the frost talent " ice in your veins" does seem incredibly power it fails to remind people that death strike costs 45 runic power which is quite the hefty cost that you might not have if you wish to use it during IBF, basically if you are low and need to heal asap you would need to spend runes first to gain said runic power in order to heal during IBF, now this might not seem like an issue to you but imagine under critical timing where you might not have enough runic power and end up wasting more time than you have to gain said resources.

yeah, DS costs too much 45 rm is way harder to spam out than 2 runes, i'd really suggest for it costing 2 runes not rm at all. You always have runes most of the time and DS was nerfed anyways as its heal no longer scales with the dmg but is a flat 10% hp gain. Also i wonder how a frost dk will benefit from that 5 sek rule when losing hp and using DS when he is kited and trained 24/7 in any given arena bracket.

Aslo the guy seems unaware to notice what all the other classes and specs got with artefacts and pvp talents, little hint(shadow priests and locks, might surprise some way more than on live servers their 100 versions are very weak in comparssion to lvl110 cousins on beta that will turn into fortresses if they do not receive hard nerfs)

If i see a frost dk in any arena setup i will focus and train hin until he dies, like serious tunneling, no reliable selfheals, no blood presence no real movement. He can only work in RBGs, period.

Also people here have the bad habit to compare abiliteis while we must compare the whole package of a spec. Apart from the lack of survivability, the frost dk no longer has ranged dmg, just a weak dot applied with the greatly weakened howling blast. His 2-3 melee strikes do the dmg now, while a well talented and organized unholy dk can do most of his dmg from far away.

Its important to realize what an adavantage this is doing it from 30y away and along with instants on the move you can basicly rub those arena pillars or just stand behind a big zerg in a bg. A frost dk can only die very quickly, he is the worser version of a warrior now who has no heals but some great def and mobility mechanics.

So its not just about dmg with uptime and some def abilities - when the design as is, is a failed design in arenas. Also i can't remember a season where frost was top tier, while in WoD unholy just was lackluster does not mean frost was top tier in arenas, but at least it was viable in some few comps.

However, not advising to play a dk right now, blizzard made it clear they do not get any love when legion starts, no spec, not even blood their favorite spec.(its all about tanks for blizz when it comes to melees)

[Hotmail]

Nothing has really changed:

[wholol]

yeah, DS costs too much 45 rm is way harder to spam out than 2 runes, i'd really suggest for it costing 2 runes not rm at all. You always have runes most of the time and DS was nerfed anyways as its heal no longer scales with the dmg but is a flat 10% hp gain. Also i wonder how a frost dk will benefit from that 5 sek rule when losing hp and using DS when he is kited and trained 24/7 in any given arena bracket.

Aslo the guy seems unaware to notice what all the other classes and specs got with artefacts and pvp talents, little hint(shadow priests and locks, might surprise some way more than on live servers their 100 versions are very weak in comparssion to lvl110 cousins on beta that will turn into fortresses if they do not receive hard nerfs)

If i see a frost dk in any arena setup i will focus and train hin until he dies, like serious tunneling, no reliable selfheals, no blood presence no real movement. He can only work in RBGs, period.

Also people here have the bad habit to compare abiliteis while we must compare the whole package of a spec. Apart from the lack of survivability, the frost dk no longer has ranged dmg, just a weak dot applied with the greatly weakened howling blast. His 2-3 melee strikes do the dmg now, while a well talented and organized unholy dk can do most of his dmg from far away.

Its important to realize what an adavantage this is doing it from 30y away and along with instants on the move you can basicly rub those arena pillars or just stand behind a big zerg in a bg. A frost dk can only die very quickly, he is the worser version of a warrior now who has no heals but some great def and mobility mechanics.

So its not just about dmg with uptime and some def abilities - when the design as is, is a failed design in arenas. Also i can't remember a season where frost was top tier, while in WoD unholy just was lackluster does not mean frost was top tier in arenas, but at least it was viable in some few comps.

However, not advising to play a dk right now, blizzard made it clear they do not get any love when legion starts, no spec, not even blood their favorite spec.(its all about tanks for blizz when it comes to melees)

^Pretty much sums up this entire thread.

[Tyrannica]

http://captiongenerator.com/102621/frost

- - - Updated - - -

http://imgur.com/FNAa1W8#


sums it up even better.

[Eruntien]

UH still seems better TBH as Frosts utility is practically none existent.

[trueoner]

I'll be trying unholy first (just picked up apocalypse). I am much less excited about it today than i was last week before the most recent nerf.

[Crruor]

Frost has always been more of an up front damage spec with bursty steady damage. Unholy has always and still is about rotting the opponent with spread pressure and it can is a great spec to pair with other classes that work similarly simply because of necrotic strike which can put the healer behind as long as you continually disrupt with switching, your two grips which can be used as interupts, and of course mind freeze. If you like prolonged arena matches which involve wearing down and putting the enemy behind unholy is your spec. If you want to just run in and try to blow someone up or train targets frost would most likely be your spec. Unholy obviously is a more in depth spec that requires you to be more intuitive with your switching to create pressure, and frost takes very little effort to get good at quickly.

Iirc, unholy used to be the control and burst spec with almost no real preassure at all, with frost being the one killing with pure preassure damage (while being one of the tanking specs, so it also could take a lot of punishments). But those days are long gone by. (blood presence being +15% flat damage increase and frost spec being the tank presence etc)

[Prail]

Unholy for AoE cleave/rot. Frost for training one persons face into the ground. What ever comp you want to play really. Both work.

UH is completely of training someones face into the ground. YES it does specialize in rot and is super strong at it, but dont get it twisted, if you put UH in a single target comp, it will still do fine.