What exactly is our strength as DPS?

[Deleted]

We have AMS, IBF and Corpse shield that is nothing to simply dismiss. We can also act during our defense they cannot. So sure the mage will survive where others die but when the last one standing you aren't going to do much in the end. Shamans still have BL, chances are if you are raiding mythic you have at least one shaman in there.

I find people are being overly pessimistic about dk's and too positive about mages.

yep dks and dhs are classes where most people are hatefull about.

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If your raid runs personal loot - many will still run master loot (particularly if they loot council and/or intend to funnel tier)

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Agreed - where's the payoff of "feeling very strong" when they do stay on target. Not saying they are weak, but certainly no stronger than any classes with greater mobility.

rogues and mages are well rogues and mages its their thing to be so good has been for long time and dont think there was any time they were really weak

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I don't think it's particularly realistic to expect most guilds to fill all of their melee slots with rogues.

only if tier has been on farm for ages and evry melee has a rogue alt thats possible and even that it would take many months to fully gear them

[Piz813]

i still dont understand the "lack of mobility" complaining. we had on use talent Deaths Advance for 2 xpacs. every 30 seconds we moved faster, mostly during a run back after a wipe

now we have Wraith Walk which is faster just with a 15 seconds longer CD for UH, which the vast majority plays (except me pretty much)

look at all of us who had 400+ wipes on Mythic Archie before the kill. many raid didnt take DPS Warriors during early progression of a off night. Why? cause pre 7.0 warriors did dick damage until Execute phase!!! so if a guild was struggling to even get to 20%, taking a Fury/Arms was pointless. Once the kinks were worked out and a few sub 8% wipes then yeah, we took warriors. weeks and weeks and hours before that 480th pull that got the kill, no warrior in sight.

we will be fine. you will be fine. play what you enjoy. stop bitching. man up

[Raikh]

Personal loot mgiht end up being good. Since you can trade personal loot now you can abuse that if you stack classes. Have that one guy getting the trinekt for the third time? Trade it to those who haven't gotten it yet. It might end up being very practicable if you are stacking some classes.

For tier bosses you can still swap to master looter if you want to funnel it to specific people and for tier tokens you shouldnt have to worry about class stacking too much.

Loot distribution should be way less interesting than in earlier expansions and sicne raid buffs are also gone for the most part I can see inferior classes being phased out if such a trend goes on, maybe not in T19 but in the long run it can very well happen.

[Kronik85]

The answer to the question is that 99% (possibly more) of Guilds don't engage in extreme class stacking where the DPS is made entirely out of Rogues and Mages. Not in one of those guilds? Enjoy raiding on your DK.

Opening Tier of Legion is dominated by Rogues and Mages? Good they will get nerfed since Blizz actually thinks that's a real problem during progression....at least when it's not Rogues and Mages...so let's dial that down to "maybe get nerfed".

Either way this isn't an issue for most players or Guilds.

[Deleted]

The answer to the question is that 99% (possibly more) of Guilds don't engage in extreme class stacking where the DPS is made entirely out of Rogues and Mages. Not in one of those guilds? Enjoy raiding on your DK.

Everyone here is a top 10 Raider, didn't you know?

[Hashcrypt]

You all realize that other melee DPS are saying the same thing about their class as a whole?

What's the point of bringing us when X class can do Y better.

And DK's often get mentioned in other boards for their high DPS.

At the end of the day, whether you're a DK, Paladin, Rogue, or any other melee class...you should play what you enjoy and forget about the rest.

Here's a couple of helpful questions that, when answered, will determine which class/spec/role you should play in Legion.

Question #1: Are you in a world 1st competiting guild? If the answer is yes, then you'll be a slave to whatever the powers that be determine is viable to hit world 1st. If the answer is no, then play what you want.

Question #2: Do you enjoy the playstyle of your current class? If yes, then great, keep on playing. If the answer is no, then reroll.

[Deleted]

You all realize that other melee DPS are saying the same thing about their class as a whole?

What's the point of bringing us when X class can do Y better.

And DK's often get mentioned in other boards for their high DPS.

At the end of the day, whether you're a DK, Paladin, Rogue, or any other melee class...you should play what you enjoy and forget about the rest.

Here's a couple of helpful questions that, when answered, will determine which class/spec/role you should play in Legion.

Question #1: Are you in a world 1st competiting guild? If the answer is yes, then you'll be a slave to whatever the powers that be determine is viable to hit world 1st. If the answer is no, then play what you want.

Question #2: Do you enjoy the playstyle of your current class? If yes, then great, keep on playing. If the answer is no, then reroll.

The people that are complaining about DKs are the shit lords that have no idea how ridiculous Unholy currently is, they'll threaten to re-roll another class (even though they won't) or say they'll get benched by the imaginary Mages they have lined up in their rank 1000+ Guild. It's really pointless arguing with them, because they just drag you down to their level.

[Deleted]

you can not go wrong bringing a dk along.

even though UH is ahead. Frost can hold its own in raids too.

generally great burst,
great single and AoE
great at sustained damage when having to move around.

[Hotmail]

Buff DKs. /10

[Deleted]

only if tier has been on farm for ages and every melee has a rogue alt thats possible and even that it would take many months to fully gear them

Depends the loot system. With personal it takes the same time for everyone

[Deleted]

Depends the loot system. With personal it takes the same time for everyone

still even with PL it would take the whole raid being on farm and months to fully gear multiple rogues

[Hoeth]

still even with PL it would take the whole raid being on farm and months to fully gear multiple rogues

Why would it take any longer to gear 5 rogues than it would to gear 1 rogue, 1 enhancement shaman, 1 DK, 1 mage and 1 boomkin with personal loot?

[Deleted]

Why would it take any longer to gear 5 rogues than it would to gear 1 rogue, 1 enhancement shaman, 1 DK, 1 mage and 1 boomkin with personal loot?

i meant even if you use pl it will still take takes months to fully gear bis no matter comp. Might take same as your example or might take longer/shorter , to fully gear it isnt something you do in few resets.

[Deleted]

Why would it take any longer to gear 5 rogues than it would to gear 1 rogue, 1 enhancement shaman, 1 DK, 1 mage and 1 boomkin with personal loot?

A bit faster to gear 5 rogues since they can trade loot.

[Deleted]

i meant even if you use pl it will still take takes months to fully gear bis no matter comp. Might take same as your example or might take longer/shorter , to fully gear it isnt something you do in few resets.

Then it doesnt matter if its 5 rogues or 5 different melee classes anyway, and thus the argument is invalid concerning having more than a few select classes.

[Kronik85]

Why would it take any longer to gear 5 rogues than it would to gear 1 rogue, 1 enhancement shaman, 1 DK, 1 mage and 1 boomkin with personal loot?

With personal loot it isn't going to make much difference but that doesn't change the reality that your Guild DPS comp probably isn't entirely Mage and Rogue and your Guild isn't comprised of players that want to play Rogue and Mage.

The top end of raiding is at this point is so ridiculously competitive that it's members are playing multiple classes and they will take whatever is the FotM or what is best to beat the encounter, which renders the whole issue moot since there will always be classes which outperform others and these Guilds will always be stacking them whatever it is. If you're a member of one of these Guilds then it's a given that you play one or you lose your spot but for the rest of us it's a non issue.

If anything when Legion launches and a large proportion of the top end Guilds start stacking Mages and Rogues then that just highlights the issue to Blizzard and they might address it, if you buy into a theory that Blizzard intends Mages and Rogues to be outliers then you can be confident that you won't be getting nerfed and you will be playing one of those 2 for all of Legion and your happiness is guaranteed.

DK's seem to be widely thought of outside of this sub forum as the second best melee after Rogue, that's not a bad spot for the rest of us.

If you want be a FotM reroller then go for it, I don't mean that as an insult, if playing the outlier classes is the only way you can enjoy the game then play the game that way.

[cFortyfive]

only if tier has been on farm for ages and evry melee has a rogue alt thats possible and even that it would take many months to fully gear them

Pretty much so as far as progression is concerned every melee sits in about the same boat.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I would look into Epidemic. Exponential AOE is their strength. The more mobs, the more the abilities can do, and if you played in WoD at all you would know that is why Enhance was so over powered in CMs. They had the same type of damage with Fire Nova, but its gone now from them, leaving Unholy as the king.

Now there may not be a lot of opportunities for this to shine this expansion, but when there is they will dominate. Think of a fight like Iskar or Darmac where a bunch of trash adds come out regularly and you can Epidemic off them onto the main target for just insane damage.

Outside this, there is really nothing wrong with them. Idk what all the talk about Mage is but unless it gets to be a repeat of 6.2 Arcane then I don't think you need to be worrying about it. No one is going to bring 16 mages for progression.

But anyway, you still have single grip, which can go a LONG way, and battle rez which will be invaluable in 5 man progression.
I would rank Unholy DK as a top tier melee atm right now.

Also, in terms of your concerns with AMZ, be aware that no one else has a defensive raid CD other than Warrior.

[Hashcrypt]

Another pro for Unholy is its depth on gameplay. Out of War, Ret, Rogue, Enh, and DK, Unholy has the most nuanced combat by far.

[Coldvibes]

We already are doing pretty fucking good damage. Slight mobility tweaks would be nice but if we remain unchanged at all from Beta currently then DKs are in very good shape.