Germany bans muslim teen from wearing niqab

[announced]

Redneck jihadist? I was making a very unsubtle reference to the Irish, some of whom comprised a certain group that led a decades long bombing campaign across the UK in the not too distant past. They certainly didn't need niqabs to do so.

Technically the niqab is just the head cover. And just so we're clear, you're concerned about a suicide bomber covering their face? So if they're just wearing a jacket it's OK because you'll be able to see their face on the playback after they've blown themselves up.

they dont have to be a bomber, they could easily pull out an AR-15 and starting shooting 50+ people in a night club. how would you know they dont have any weapons under their niqab? theres plenty of space for hidden items. sure u could hide an ar-15 in a jacket but its going to be much harder plus you can easily be identified afterwards and therefore caught. its much harder to catch someone when you can only identify their eyes between a tiny space. women can pull this off, men as well. the niqab isnt gender specific when your cause is for jihad.

[Deleted]

About time that someone disallows these things. Now if we only could extend it to burqas and hijabs and other kind of religious wear too it would be most excellent. http://www.thelocal.de/20160822/musl...veil-in-school An 18-year-old student at a night school in Osnabrück, Lower Saxony, has been told by a court that she cannot attend her classes while wearing a niqab. The teenager had taken her school to court after they told her she would not be able to attend classes so long as she continued to wear the conservative Islamic clothing, which leaves the whole body covered except for a slit for the eyes. The young woman failed to turn up for the court appointment due to the huge media attention it had gained, leading the judge to uphold the school’s decision, the Neue Osnabrücke Zeitung reports.

well maybe the west should follow japan and china's stance on islam religions and jsut outright ban them cos japan and china was afraid of there culture being ruined but it wont happen in the west cos it would be "racist" the western world is to damn soft and if you say anything slightly offensive it get posted o ntwitter and the media blow it out of proportion,

[Nirya]

well maybe the west should follow japan and china's stance on islam religions and jsut outright ban them cos japan and china was afraid of there culture being ruined but it wont happen in the west cos it would be "racist" the western world is to damn soft and if you say anything slightly offensive it get posted o ntwitter and the media blow it out of proportion,

You have no clue what you're talking about, islam isn't banned here.

[Adamas102]

they dont have to be a bomber, they could easily pull out an AR-15 and starting shooting 50+ people in a night club. how would you know they dont have any weapons under their niqab? theres plenty of space for hidden items. sure u could hide an ar-15 in a jacket but its going to be much harder plus you can easily be identified afterwards and therefore caught. its much harder to catch someone when you can only identify their eyes between a tiny space. women can pull this off, men as well. the niqab isnt gender specific when your cause is for jihad.

Really? Wow... You just referenced an event that actually happened and had absolutely nothing to do with someone wearing this kind of clothing. You've got to be trolling. No one could be that dense.

[announced]

Really? Wow... You just referenced an event that actually happened and had absolutely nothing to do with someone wearing this kind of clothing. You've got to be trolling. No one could be that dense.

you really are dumb as a rock. that was one example albeit not a relevant one (for relevant examples see the last 4 links i included) simply illustrates the point that when criminals wear the niqab disguise they can get away with crime way easier. had the shooter only killed a few people then ran out while wearing a niqab, he would likely have gotten away with the crime instead of being killed in a police stand off. The fact that some of these crimes were committed by men is irrelevant, we do not know for certain that these were men at all. they were all wearing niqabs. This link below has a female suspect.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#axzz2Ju8P6wW4

The niqab, while a religious attire, is also a huge security risk. Whether you are too delusional, stupid or naive and dont realize this i dont know. The point is a Country's safety laws should come first before religious laws. That reasoning is sound, its the same reason banks ask customers to remove any clothing that conceals your face.

[Wells]

well maybe the west should follow japan and china's stance on islam religions and jsut outright ban them cos japan and china was afraid of there culture being ruined but it wont happen in the west cos it would be "racist" the western world is to damn soft and if you say anything slightly offensive it get posted o ntwitter and the media blow it out of proportion,

*because.

And western culture, at least in the United States it seems these days, is tolerance for other cultural practices and religious beliefs.

[Adamas102]

you really are dumb as a rock. that was one example albeit not a relevant one (for relevant examples see the last 4 links i included) simply illustrates the point that when criminals wear the niqab disguise they can get away with crime way easier. had the shooter only killed a few people then ran out while wearing a niqab, he would likely have gotten away with the crime instead of being killed in a police stand off. The fact that some of these crimes were committed by men is irrelevant, we do not know for certain that these were men at all. they were all wearing niqabs. This link below has a female suspect.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#axzz2Ju8P6wW4

The niqab, while a religious attire, is also a huge security risk. Whether you are too delusional, stupid or naive and dont realize this i dont know. The point is a Country's safety laws should come first before religious laws. That reasoning is sound, its the same reason banks ask customers to remove any clothing that conceals your face.

From "start shooting 50+ people in a night club" to "only kill a few people then [run] out". So begin by using an irrelevant example (your words), move on to making up a story and speculating on what might or might not happen. Are you sure you're even trying to prove a point other than not knowing what the fuck you're talking about? I mean, you can move the goal posts all you want, if you're not going to make any rational arguments then it doesn't matter.

So far in this thread you've referenced suicide bombers and mass shooters, but the only links you've provided are for bank robberies and a jealousy related acid attack (where the culprit was indeed found and jailed). So far you've provided no evidence that the niqab is any more dangerous than any other piece of attire that could be used to conceal something.

Can the niqab be used by someone to commit a criminal act? Sure. Is it used often in that capacity? No. If they're such a perfect disguise, you'd think criminals would use them more often. Does it matter that you can make up a variety of fantasies concerning niqabs and crime? No. Are a handful of incidents enough to completely ban an article of clothing worn by millions for non-criminal purposes? No.

I already stated my position on this type of clothing being restricted in certain settings. You should know this since it was in my first post WHICH YOU QUOTED. None of the actual evidence you've posted has don't anything but strengthen my position. As for the shit you make up, well none of that is relevant anyway.

[Chemii]

well maybe the west should follow japan and china's stance on islam religions and jsut outright ban them cos japan and china was afraid of there culture being ruined but it wont happen in the west cos it would be "racist" the western world is to damn soft and if you say anything slightly offensive it get posted o ntwitter and the media blow it out of proportion,

This is total nonsense. Islam is not banned in either country, it just isn't very popular in Japan but is actually a significant minority in China.

[Noradin]

i just wondered, because the case seems pretty interesting stuff for higher courts. Arguments should decide, not her lack of commitment.

Why would it be interesting for higher courts?
It is not the first time something like this came up.

[zenkai]

Frankly none of those values are being violated. She is allowed to be muslim or any other religion she may want to be a part of, she can express herself freely as well. But the school simply wants to confirm her identity while she is in school. I highly doubt the school is doing it to "pick" on her, but simply for security reasons.

Personally I think it's about time to ban burkas/niqab's in Germany. It is a ridiculous notion that people from other countries come here, be it immigration for financial reason or fleeing from war, that they force their customs to be accepted. If I go to Dubai my girlfriend does not run around in hotpants either but respects their customs and dresses appropriately. I think that is a more than fair expectation, we are only guests in Dubai at that point. But that street goes both ways, at least it should.

And the most common sense post award comes too *drum rolls*--- YOU! Congrats! Sorry there is no prize.

[ranzino]

Why would it be interesting for higher courts?
It is not the first time something like this came up.

Because it interferes with Article 4 of Grundgesetz and usually such stuff need a verdict from BVG, not a lowly court in Lower Saxony.
Was it ever implemented in german law before ? i know ( because European court's decision) we could ban it, but until now and the present discussion i cannot remember a plain and simple law.

[Caelia]

i just wondered, because the case seems pretty interesting stuff for higher courts. Arguments should decide, not her lack of commitment.

The only argument needed is that the Niqab has nothing to do with Islam, therefor it's not about religion.

[ranzino]

The only argument needed is that the Niqab has nothing to do with Islam, therefor it's not about religion.

we know that, but until it is codified "niqab is not covered by article 4 and freedom of religion, now gtfo my court" the topic remains.

[Noradin]

Because it interferes with Article 4 of Grundgesetz and usually such stuff need a verdict from BVG, not a lowly court in Lower Saxony.
Was it ever implemented in german law before ? i know ( because European court's decision) we could ban it, but until now and the present discussion i cannot remember a plain and simple law.

How so?
This is not a general ban, just the girl in question demonstrated her lack of care and thus that her "religions reasons" were just a pretext.
You cannot just lie about having certain religious believs and then disregard them whenever it fits your purposes but at the same time ask for special considerations from others.

This has nothing to do with religious beliefs, sinc aparently the girl in question didn't even care enough to show up.

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we know that, but until it is codified "niqab is not covered by article 4 and freedom of religion, now gtfo my court" the topic remains.

This is not a common law country, thus they do not need precedent, and it is a pretty standard ruling to to decide there are no religious beliefs when the the person does not care for them.

[ranzino]

How so?
This is not a general ban, just the girl in question demonstrated her lack of care and thus that her "religions reasons" were just a pretext.
You cannot just lie about having certain religious believs and then disregard them whenever it fits your purposes but at the same time ask for special considerations from others.

This has nothing to do with religious beliefs, sinc aparently the girl in question didn't even care enough to show up.

- - - Updated - - -



This is not a common law country, thus they do not need precedent, and it is a pretty standard ruling to to decide there are no religious beliefs when the the person does not care for them.

fair guess others will pick up, where the girl dropped the case ? ok, no revision to her individual case, but still ?

[Noradin]

fair guess others will pick up, where the girl dropped the case ? ok, no revision to her individual case, but still ?

Others have won similar cases before, and others have lost similar ones, this is a civil law case, not common law, it does not set a precedent.

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failed to turn up for the court appointment due to the huge media attention it had gained
"didn't even care enough"

Seems more like she got some "love letters" from the radical right.

If she did then she would have had another case and could have submitted those and the ruling would have gone differently.

[Deleted]

Seems more like she got some "love letters" from the radical right.

I don't think AFA has remembered they are 'feminist' yet.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Anti-mask laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_laws

[The Penguin]

Should we ban Halloween costumes as well. Muslim women covering themselves isn't an issue, Muslim women being forced to cover themselves is

It's simple.

If it's a security risk you shouldn't be allowed to do it in public places. Don't like it, cope with it and comply. Or leave the Country.

[Bapestar]

It's simple.

If it's a security risk you shouldn't be allowed to do it in public places. Don't like it, cope with it and comply. Or leave the Country.

You don't really beleive that, you're just using that reason to hide your bigotry.