Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[Nitro Fun]

What would be your arguments for or against flat tax?

[I Push Buttons]

I am against it because poor people have no money and rich people can afford to pay more.

[hrugner]

Against: It doesn't recognize that capital yields capital, and it doesn't recognize that capital increase requires exponential infrastructural support. It's about as nonsensical as having currency backed by a physical medium, economics is too dynamic for systems that simplistic.

[Mihalik]

What would be your arguments for or against flat tax?

For? Nothing.

Against? You have to clarify what exactly are we discussing here. Flat Personal Income Tax or a Flat Tax across the board. While we can have a discussion about the merits or lack of for a Flat Personal Income Tax (it's still shitty as fuck, but can work in certain very specific scenarios), I'll address the Flat Tax across the board thing that crazies like the GOP and Libertarians talk about.

1, It is fucking stupid.
2, Nobody with a basic grasp of Economics or Math in general thinks a flat tax is a good idea. And the 5 guys who have an Economics background and claim it is a good idea are essentially on the payroll of two or three ideologically motivated lobby groups, who really are just looking for a massive tax break.
3, A flat tax shifts the tax burden onto the Middle Class and the Poor. While Corporations and large businesses who use a disproportionate chunk of government services get off scott free.
4,Countries that have adopted flat tax systems are either Fiscal Paradises, Third World Shitholes or Resource Economies. Their shtick is essentially corruption.

[krunksmash]

For.

we have tried the multi-tiered system, it does not work, the poor pay nothing but get no where, the rich pay nothing by exploiting tax code, and the middle class gets taxed into poverty.

I fully support a 2 tiered flat tax under 1 mil 10%, over 1 mil 20% no deductions or deferral, you know exactly how much will come out of your check each month and no income bracket gets treated unfairly or excessively taxed.

you under the poverty line? well your guaranteed 100% of your paid taxes back come tax time.

this would also drive the economy because more businesses would be willing to build in the states and hire more.

[alexw]

What would be your arguments for or against flat tax?

For? None.

Against? The idea is complete garbage for numerous reasons (slower economic growth due to the upwards redistributive effect, ignores marginal utility of additional income, doesn't simplify the tax code as proponents argue, etc, etc). As someone has already said the only economists who support it are paid shills, there is a reason for that.

[krunksmash]

For? None.

Against? The idea is complete garbage for numerous reasons (slower economic growth due to the upwards redistributive effect, ignores marginal utility of additional income, doesn't simplify the tax code as proponents argue, etc, etc). As someone has already said the only economists who support it are paid shills, there is a reason for that.

so all of you thinks its fair that middle class like me and my parents get riped for 40% of our checks while the rich exploit the piss out of the tax code to pay damn near nothing?

[Deleted]

For.

we have tried the multi-tiered system, it does not work, the poor pay nothing but get no where, the rich pay nothing by exploiting tax code, and the middle class gets taxed into poverty.

I fully support a 2 tiered flat tax under 1 mil 10%, over 1 mil 20% no deductions or deferral, you know exactly how much will come out of your check each month and no income bracket gets treated unfairly or excessively taxed.

you under the poverty line? well your guaranteed 100% of your paid taxes back come tax time.

this would also drive the economy because more businesses would be willing to build in the states and hire more.

if your argument is progressive tax brackets cant work because of loopholes, why wouldn't or couldn't there be loopholes in a flat tax system?

[Ashelorh]

For - Equality. Everyone pays the same %.
Against - Everything else already mentioned.

[alexw]

For.

we have tried the multi-tiered system, it does not work, the poor pay nothing but get no where, the rich pay nothing by exploiting tax code, and the middle class gets taxed into poverty.

I fully support a 2 tiered flat tax under 1 mil 10%, over 1 mil 20% no deductions or deferral, you know exactly how much will come out of your check each month and no income bracket gets treated unfairly or excessively taxed.

you under the poverty line? well your guaranteed 100% of your paid taxes back come tax time.

this would also drive the economy because more businesses would be willing to build in the states and hire more.

Lol. Just no. What you suggest would utterly collapse the economy in days as the whole system of government shut down. Oh and it would do absolutely nothing for expansion and hiring irrespective of aforesaid shut down, since it is economic demand that drives economic expansion and hiring. If falling tax rates did increase hiring we would already be swimming in jobs given how tax rates have been falling for decades. That is evidently not the case.

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so all of you thinks its fair that middle class like me and my parents get riped for 40% of our checks while the rich exploit the piss out of the tax code to pay damn near nothing?

And what has that got to do with a flat tax system? You think under a flat tax system the rich would not be able to game the system? Oh boy......

[Drattz]

so all of you thinks its fair that middle class like me and my parents get riped for 40% of our checks while the rich exploit the piss out of the tax code to pay damn near nothing?

He couldn't possibly also have a problem with the fact that our tax code is filled with loop holes people exploit.

[Zarc]

The income inequality we have now is already turning gullible sheep of people in droves to support fascist politicians across the Western world, cheered on by their role model Vladimir Putin, as uncertain times have once again paved the way for scapegoating, bigotry and paranoia. Why would I want to make that any worse? The corruption of liberalism that is libertarianism will claim it must be so for the sake of freedom. This is a lie of the alt-right whose most noble objective seem to be to champion the freedom to verbally and mentally abuse others and the dismantling of government intervention in the economy so that the rich and powerful can be even richer and more powerful. A flat tax to supposedly increase your economic freedom is ultimately a lie that will reduce your economic freedom as essential government services are replaced by private corporations that will drag you down the gutter with rules and regulations out the window and the predators of the world let loose. Of course as they simultaneously strive to reverse the progress of history and retract social and cultural freedom this so-called libertarian ideology is ultimately the opposite of the classical liberalism from which it once departed from.

In other words; I'm against that shit.

[Independent voter]

Okay so count every US citizen, say there are 330,000,000. All corporations count as citizens too, Exxon Mobile, Google, etc so say there are 100K more.

Divide that by how much taxes are needed and every man woman and child will have to pay like $20,000 a year in taxes. That's truly a flat tax.

But when most people say "flat tax" they don't mean every citizen pays an equal shard of taxes so why not have a progressive tax? If you make $20K a year you pay $2K in taxes and if you make a $100K a year you pay $10K. It makes sense to me. Hell maybe the guy making $20K should pay no taxes at all?

[krunksmash]

if your argument is progressive tax brackets cant work because of loopholes, why wouldn't or couldn't there be loopholes in a flat tax system?

Easy, erase the current tax code code and implement what I said, its simple and black and white. Bob earns 100K a year, bob is in tier 1 10%, jill earns 1.2 mil a year, Jill is in tier 2 20%.

Dan co is 750K a year, dan co is tier 1 10%, lesley LLC is 2 mill a year, lesley LLC is tier 2 20%.

done. where is the loop hole?

[Orbitus]

For.

we have tried the multi-tiered system, it does not work, the poor pay nothing but get no where, the rich pay nothing by exploiting tax code, and the middle class gets taxed into poverty.

I fully support a 2 tiered flat tax under 1 mil 10%, over 1 mil 20% no deductions or deferral, you know exactly how much will come out of your check each month and no income bracket gets treated unfairly or excessively taxed.

you under the poverty line? well your guaranteed 100% of your paid taxes back come tax time.

this would also drive the economy because more businesses would be willing to build in the states and hire more.

Not even remotely true, especially your last statement. We give businesses HUGE tax breaks now and they don't hire anyone. They just add it to their profits. Giving them even more tax breaks gives them more money. If you want people to hire other people. Increase the wages. Giving people more money usually ends up going back to said companies that we are giving tax breaks to. More need for their products, increases the need to hire more workers to fix the increase in productivity needs. We have tried the trickle down bullshit for almost 40 fucking years. It hasn't worked. We need to get off of it.

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Easy, erase the current tax code code and implement what I said, its simple and black and white. Bob earns 100K a year, bob is in tier 1 10%, jill earns 1.2 mil a year, Jill is in tier 2 20%.

Dan co is 750K a year, dan co is tier 1 10%, lesley LLC is 2 mill a year, lesley LLC is tier 2 20%.

done. where is the loop hole?

And your tax code would never get implemented because of the lobbyists. You get rid of the lobbyists, you might be able to get it but as it currently sits, it would never happen.

[Deleted]

Easy, erase the current tax code code and implement what I said, its simple and black and white. Bob earns 100K a year, bob is in tier 1 10%, jill earns 1.2 mil a year, Jill is in tier 2 20%.

Dan co is 750K a year, dan co is tier 1 10%, lesley LLC is 2 mill a year, lesley LLC is tier 2 20%.

done. where is the loop hole?

if it's income tax, then various current loopholes can remain to exist by putting money in "not income" categories.

[krunksmash]

Not even remotely true, especially your last statement. We give businesses HUGE tax breaks now and they don't hire anyone. They just add it to their profits. Giving them even more tax breaks gives them more money. If you want people to hire other people. Increase the wages. Giving people more money usually ends up going back to said companies that we are giving tax breaks to. More need for their products, increases the need to hire more workers to fix the increase in productivity needs. We have tried the trickle down bullshit for almost 40 fucking years. It hasn't worked. We need to get off of it.

Citizens get taxed 50% - 75% less, they now have more money, when people have more money that spend more money, the surge in spending increases profits and increases demand for goods, companies hire to meet demand newly employed people earn money keep 80% - 90% of what they earn and spend more feeding growth.

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if it's income tax, then various current loopholes can remain to exist by putting money in "not income" categories.

thats fixed by putting an iron grip on what qualifies as " not income "

[Cerus]

For - Equality. Everyone pays the same %.
Against - Everything else already mentioned.

How on earth is it equal? Someone making 30k a year with a 10% flat tax only takes home 27k. Someone making 250k still takes home a whopping 225k. Yeah that's not equality.

[Deleted]

thats fixed by putting an iron grip on what qualifies as " not income "

and why exactly can't you do that in a progressive tax brackets system?

[Muddysmind]

I am against it because poor people have no money and rich people can afford to pay more.

I vote you give double what you give now since your so pro tax.