Deaf driver shot dead by US police during traffic stop

[Independent voter]

When I was 12 or so the police came to our school and set up a "shoot don't shoot" simulator. So I went through the scenarios and did pretty good, didn't shoot anyone I wasn't supposed to, shot the people I was supposed to. Then there was one simulation where this guy is approaching, I told him to stop several times but he just kept coming so I shot him too. The simulation continues and he pulls this card out of his coat that says, "I am legally deaf and dumb". So I shot a deaf guy.

I think the cops included that scenario to make us think and it did.

[Kapadons]

Does Germany have 1/4th the police killings the US does? Nope. It has almost none, and the US has 1000+ annually. Do you think almost zero is 1/4th of 1000?

The list for Germany says 7 police shooting fatalities for last year. and 43 shootings.

And we don't know how many actual police shooting fatalities the US has/have. We simply don't have the data available, which is absolutely crazy. For 2009 and some data suggest 73, for 2013 it says 343, for 2015 it says 416 while others says 1209 for 2015. So we can't have an honest discussion about the US and police shottings until we know the data.

But we also can't really have a discussion on 2 different countries that are worlds apart in terms of both geography and culture, including gun culture. Some non-official stats say that roughly 1/3rd of all Americans own a gun. or roughly 117 million Americans. German page on wiki says 1.4 million people own guns in Germany. so less than half a % of people in Germany own a gun. Can you not see the difference in between interacting with someone that has 33% chance of having a gun?

[NineSpine]

cops are human, we live in a country where there are more guns then people its not unreasonable for them to assume that guy yelling at them and reaching behind his back is garbing a gun because the sad fact is we live in a nation where its likely he is. aslo waiting for your citation for 500 unarmed people killed a year.

If a normal citizen cannot shoot you on random suspicion of maybe you are going to pull out a gun he hasn't seen, why should a police offer be able to shoot you in that scenario? If the reasoning is self defense, there is no logical reason to exclude normal citizens from that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...t-nearly-1000/

About 400 people shot who were not armed with a gun.

[alexkeren]

I can't comment on the shooting without knowing why he was shot but even deaf, wouldn't you still see the sirens behind you?

I'm guessing you mean lights, since you can only hear sirens.

[NineSpine]

The list for Germany says 7 police shooting fatalities for last year. and 43 shootings.

And we don't know how many actual police shooting fatalities the US has/have. We simply don't have the data available, which is absolutely crazy. For 2009 and some data suggest 73, for 2013 it says 343, for 2015 it says 416 while others says 1209 for 2015. So we can't have an honest discussion about the US and police shottings until we know the data.

But we also can't really have a discussion on 2 different countries that are worlds apart in terms of both geography and culture, including gun culture. Some non-official stats say that roughly 1/3rd of all Americans own a gun. or roughly 117 million Americans. German page on wiki says 1.4 million people own guns in Germany. so less than half a % of people in Germany own a gun. Can you not see the difference in between interacting with someone that has 33% chance of having a gun?

Let's compare a citizen in Germany and a citizen in the US. Do you believe the US citizen has a lower bar to hit before he is allowed to execute someone he sees as a threat than the German citizen does, solely because the American can ASSUME the other person has or may grab a gun?

[alexkeren]

He shot an un-armed person. Must have done something wrong no matter what with that. Especially when it was a fatal shooting.


Honestly I can't see why they should not be allowed to drive. But they should of course be extra aware with checking their rear window and such, but honestly... how much do you use your hearing when driving?

I use my hearing all the time, listen for sounds around me ... where are those sirens at I hear, when it's time to shift the manual transmission so I don't have to take my eyes off the road, etc. Oh, and the radio of course.

[Bapestar]

It doesn't fit the media, BLM and mmo OT crowds narrative of white cops hunting down and killing "innocent" black people. Surprised it's lasted this long.

That narrative has never existed lol, don't exaggerate. Just because an incident doesn't blow up, doesn't mean it's only because it doesn't fit a certain narrative.

[Canpinter]

If a normal citizen cannot shoot you on random suspicion of maybe you are going to pull out a gun he hasn't seen, why should a police offer be able to shoot you in that scenario? If the reasoning is self defense, there is no logical reason to exclude normal citizens from that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...t-nearly-1000/

About 400 people shot who were not armed with a gun.

and of those 400 how many where armed with knifes blunt weapons or using vehicles as weapons?

[NineSpine]

and of those 400 how many where armed with knifes blunt weapons or using vehicles as weapons?

Wait, are knives, blunt weapons, and vehicles banned in Germany?

[Canpinter]

Wait, are knives, blunt weapons, and vehicles banned in Germany?

we need to know if Americans attack police at higher rates then in Germany so knowing how many people that us cops shoot because they where armed and attracting them is kinda an important factor.

[Deleted]

Let's compare a citizen in Germany and a citizen in the US. Do you believe the US citizen has a lower bar to hit before he is allowed to execute someone he sees as a threat than the German citizen does, solely because the American can ASSUME the other person has or may grab a gun?

Yes.

Well that was easy.

[NineSpine]

Yes.

Well that was easy.

Fantastic, so if I see anyone reaching for something I can't see, I as a citizen can immediately kill them?

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we need to know if Americans attack police at higher rates then in Germany so knowing how many people that us cops shoot because they where armed and attracting them is kinda an important factor.

Woah look at that goalpost ruuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn

[Bapestar]

Remove "deaf" from the story, take into consideration how the guy looked to Police from that viewpoint and I think you will suddenly witness a miracle of understanding. Not the cops fault and not the guys fault. Just a failure of the system to recognize deaf drivers.

Yea, had they known the guy was deaf, things would have been different.

[NineSpine]

Yea, had they known the guy was deaf, things would have been different.

Maybe police should start assuming there may be unique circumstances in every... unique circumstance, instead of acting like it's a warzone?

[Deleted]

we need to know if Americans attack police at higher rates then in Germany so knowing how many people that us cops shoot because they where armed and attracting them is kinda an important factor.

.... God that's confusing.

Buy hey, you're probably right. Things are pretty much the same between the us and germany when it comes down to police incidents.
*cough*

detachment from reality achieved

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Fantastic, so if I see anyone reaching for something I can't see, I as a citizen can immediately kill them?

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Woah look at that goalpost ruuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn

I guess that you'd have more of a case in your excuse "he was reaching for his gun "?

[Rhaide]

@Rhaide

USA civilians are allowed to arm themselves as if they live under daily death threats in the middle east.
USA police force is both heavily armed and extremely "nervous" due to the possibility that a suspect might have a gun.

If civilians had no way to buy weapons (or ammo) of any kind, the police would be less nervous.
If the street police did not have the risk of nearly every suspect potentially having a gun, they would not have to constantly carry lethal weaponry.

USA corporations make a TON of money from weapon sales, both to its citizens as well as abroad.
Just because of the sheer corporative greed (and corrupt politicians) a notable part of the USA is still living like it was wild west with dirty harry...

Glad we agree on that point.

[NineSpine]

.... God that's confusing.

Buy hey, you're probably right. Things are pretty much the same between the us and germany when it comes down to police incidents.
*cough*

detachment from reality achieved

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I guess that you'd have more of a case in your excuse "he was reaching for his gun "?

Hint: That doesn't actually work in the U.S.. Citizens can't kill people because they ASSUMED they were a threat and had a gun. Only police are afforded that special privilege.

[Deleted]

Maybe police should start assuming there may be unique circumstances in every... unique circumstance, instead of acting like it's a warzone?

Nope. Not needed. Shoot first ask questions later.
That's what they would do in germany too if they had a similar situation... I think... I don't know that last exchange left me a bit confused.

[Canpinter]

Woah look at that goalpost ruuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn

my whole argument is that american police get attacked far more often them German ones and given your link says at least 3/4s of all police shootings when when someone was attacking the police or someone else i think my point has some validity.

[Deleted]

Hint: That doesn't actually work in the U.S.. Citizens can't kill people because they ASSUMED they were a threat and had a gun. Only police are afforded that special privilege.

Phew. But yeah I guess that would explain the higher numbers of lethal incidents.