Elemental, worth the risk?

[Reze93]

Hey all, I know there are numerous threads about this, but it seems like the majority of the complaints for elemental come from the PVP side of things, which is of no interest to me. Speaking strictly PVE, will elemental be as bad as they were at the start of WOD? I have always loved the shaman class, but that first month basically forced me to reroll to be able to contribute to my raid. Just wanted to see what you all have seen in beta and the likely state of elemental going into legion and beyond (with artifacts etc). Thanks!

[miffy23]

Hey all, I know there are numerous threads about this, but it seems like the majority of the complaints for elemental come from the PVP side of things, which is of no interest to me. Speaking strictly PVE, will elemental be as bad as they were at the start of WOD? I have always loved the shaman class, but that first month basically forced me to reroll to be able to contribute to my raid. Just wanted to see what you all have seen in beta and the likely state of elemental going into legion and beyond (with artifacts etc). Thanks!

No, definitely not as bad as early WoD. If you enjoy it, play it.

[Odintdk]

Horrible state, especially AOE/cleave wise.

[Reze93]

Well, those were opposite answers. Lol. (I guess that's the usual for elemental though)

[effs]

If you aren't playing competitively, play what you enjoy. xD

[miffy23]

Horrible state, especially AOE/cleave wise.

AoE is a bit of a weakness atm, yes, but it's far from "horrible". Cleave is ok. Our niche is simply more ST atm in Legion, and we do well in that.

[Gaucho-]

Hey all, I know there are numerous threads about this, but it seems like the majority of the complaints for elemental come from the PVP side of things, which is of no interest to me. Speaking strictly PVE, will elemental be as bad as they were at the start of WOD? I have always loved the shaman class, but that first month basically forced me to reroll to be able to contribute to my raid. Just wanted to see what you all have seen in beta and the likely state of elemental going into legion and beyond (with artifacts etc). Thanks!

General rule of thumb since WoD: play what you like, if you dont do it competivily - and always have a mage as back up character.

[Reze93]

If you aren't playing competitively, play what you enjoy. xD

I agree with this, to a point. I used to raid mythic, but only do heroic now due to life. However, for me personally it's hard to enjoy a spec that is doing terribad numbers even if my gameplay is fine.

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General rule of thumb since WoD: play what you like, if you dont do it competivily - and always have a mage as back up character.

Heh, funny you say that as i currently have my mage ready to go as my alt for this xpac

[Jotaux]

I would say its worse than WoD.

[miffy23]

Well, those were opposite answers. Lol. (I guess that's the usual for elemental though)

Note I didn't praise it to the moon.
A fair assessment would be to say that Elemental is far better in Legion release than it was in WoD release, a lot of the annoying aspects like horrible target-switching are gone, but it still struggles to really shine vs most other ranged specs. As of right now it can do fantastic ST burst, and does better on mobility and priority targets than it used to in WoD, but several other specs simply perform better on those fronts.

The TL/DR is however, unless you are fighting for a progress spot in a cutting edge Mythic guild with picky raidleaders that like to min/max, don't worry about playing it.

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I would say its worse than WoD.

This has literally no basis whatsoever. Mechanically it is undeniably in a better place, even if it still has some issues.

[Gaucho-]

AoE is a bit of a weakness atm, yes, but it's far from "horrible". Cleave is ok. Our niche is simply more ST atm in Legion, and we do well in that.

Uhm, ST sustained in Legion Elemental is middle of the pack. ST burst is unmatched, tho - except, of course, if you compare it to a fire mage.

[Reze93]

Note I didn't praise it to the moon.
A fair assessment would be to say that Elemental is far better in Legion release than it was in WoD release, a lot of the annoying aspects like horrible target-switching are gone, but it still struggles to really shine vs most other ranged specs. As of right now it can do fantastic ST burst, and does better on mobility and priority targets than it used to in WoD, but several other specs simply perform better on those fronts.

The TL/DR is however, unless you are fighting for a progress spot in a cutting edge Mythic guild with picky raidleaders that like to min/max, don't worry about playing it.

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This has literally no basis whatsoever. Mechanically it is undeniably in a better place, even if it still has some issues.

Really appreciate your input, Miffy. Which ranged specs are you referring to?

[Jotaux]

I think everyone knows Miffy23 is like that dog from the comic where his whole house is burning down with him inside and hes just sitting there like everything is fine.

Playing Elemental on beta was the worst experience I've had in the game and quickly switch to enhance. I've been elemental since BC.

[Aggrophobic]

Is ele unplayable? No.
Is it as good as fire mage or shadow priest? No, not even close.

It's not the damage it does, it's the design and thats not going to chanage. If you want to play a caster then there is little reason to play anything but a mage at this point. Every other class has some weaknesses, mage does not.

[effs]

I agree with this, to a point. I used to raid mythic, but only do heroic now due to life. However, for me personally it's hard to enjoy a spec that is doing terribad numbers even if my gameplay is fine.

That's understandable. My solution would be to roll different specs, if you're into that kinda thing.

[Lewlies]

Mechanically it's MUCH better than WoD, with a few bugs atm. DPS is also very noted to be better starting off (and scaling better too).

[Jotaux]

Mechanically it's MUCH better than WoD, with a few bugs atm. DPS is also very noted to be better starting off (and scaling better too).

We scale much worse now. Crit has become our best stat, not because its better for us than before but because everything else has gotten worse.

[Reze93]

That's understandable. My solution would be to roll different specs, if you're into that kinda thing.

Indeed. Probably the main reason I'm holding onto shaman as of now, just for that variety over just the caster only class such as the mage.

[miffy23]

Really appreciate your input, Miffy. Which ranged specs are you referring to?

Well, just about every other one to be quite fair.
Shadow is quite excellent in every aspect except maybe sustain AoE, Balance is better at mobility and spread cleave thanks to dotting. Hunter is the usual, Mage ditto. Warlocks are struggling a bit atm pending further tuning, but they'll get their spot regardless thanks to portals.

Elemental is pretty much at the mercy of having to deliver quite excellent overall DPS, or be outperformed in pretty much every niche situation except for ST burst (it's excellent, but sustain drops hard, so it ends up being average overall).

It should be noted that people have been reporting very positively about Elemental in Mythic+ thanks to Earthquake's Knockback, despite its weaksauce AoE. In a combo with some good cleave/AoE specs it does well thanks to its good ST burst damage.

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Uhm, ST sustained in Legion Elemental is middle of the pack. ST burst is unmatched, tho - except, of course, if you compare it to a fire mage.

Which is why I said we perform well in that niche, and not outstandingly.

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Is ele unplayable? No.
Is it as good as fire mage or shadow priest? No, not even close.

It's not the damage it does, it's the design and thats not going to chanage. If you want to play a caster then there is little reason to play anything but a mage at this point. Every other class has some weaknesses, mage does not.

If you want to min/max utterly, pretty much yes.
Ele is not alone in that regard, Mage outshines every other spec except perhaps Shadow for its cheesy Execute potential atm.

[Aggrophobic]

Well, just about every other one to be quite fair.
Shadow is quite excellent in every aspect except maybe sustain AoE, Balance is better at mobility and spread cleave thanks to dotting. Hunter is the usual, Mage ditto. Warlocks are struggling a bit atm pending further tuning, but they'll get their spot regardless thanks to portals.

Elemental is pretty much at the mercy of having to deliver quite excellent overall DPS, or be outperformed in pretty much every niche situation except for ST burst (it's excellent, but sustain drops hard, so it ends up being average overall).

It should be noted that people have been reporting very positively about Elemental in Mythic+ thanks to Earthquake's Knockback, despite its weaksauce AoE. In a combo with some good cleave/AoE specs it does well thanks to its good ST burst damage.

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Which is why I said we perform well in that niche, and not outstandingly.

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If you want to min/max utterly, pretty much yes.
Ele is not alone in that regard, Mage outshines every other spec except perhaps Shadow for its cheesy Execute potential atm.

It's not just for the best of the best though. The number one issue new players seem to have with casters is movement and since thats not an issue for fire, even new or bad players will do much, much better as a fire mage than with any other caster.