"The Void is a more potent foe by far than the Burning Legion"

[Omians]

The twilight hammer cult will probably start popping back up near the end of legion i think.

Being the void is old gods and weird reality bending creatures

[Aucald]

Are you 100% sure about that 1st one?

According to Chronicle Sargeras destroyed the Pantheon in a massive struggle with a storm of pure Fel energy, which due to their make-up Titans are naturally weak against. The essences or souls of the Pantheon then sought out the Titanforged Keepers on Azeroth, but due to the damage Sargeras inflicted the core of their personalities or memories were mostly lost. These energies empowered the Keepers, but only Ra or Ra-den received even a scintilla of Aman'thul's memories (one of which was revealed by Wrathion from Lei Shen's heart, itself suffused by a part of Aman'thul's powers). Knowledge of the Pantheon's destruction sent Ra into essential catatonia, and as such made it easier for the Old Gods' servant Loken to ensnare them.

[My User Name]

that quote comes directly after the quote describing how titans freely move in the universe, shaping their worlds, whereas Void Lords are stuck inside the shadow realm void dimension and cant/have great trouble manifesting

which means it can refer to them being envious of their freedom and ability to exist in the physical universe


furthermore, we KNOW as a fact (due to a Void Titan being > fel-Sargeras who is >= Pantheon) that a large void empowerment/infusion is greater than any other individual power currently known in Warcraft multiverse (with the possible exception of Azeroth herself) and considering void lords are literally made out of that very same void energy, its hard to imagine how they are weaker than regular titans

But then it says "envious of their power" not "freedom". What does power have to do with freedom?

Void Lords are only powerful if they can find a vassal for their power, like titans. But on their own; not much.

[Braven]

The Void Lords created the Old Gods to mess with the creations of the Titans, and the Old Gods were damn near as strong as the Titans themselves. So yeah, the Void Lords are something to fear, but they can't manifest themselves very well in the physical plane at the moment. The attempts we've seen so far has taken a massive amount of matter and energy. So many one could manifest if they harvested a titan-souled planet? Then yeah, we'd ruin our pants. But for now the Legion is what we need to fear.

[Qualia]

How are the Titan spirits gonna do anything to help us defeat Sargeras when the Titans massively powerful bodies and spirits combined still got their asses beat? It makes zero sense.

Simple - firstly, we don't share the same "uniquely susceptible to fel" weakness to the Titans. Then, it's not just the Titans spirits, we can get a bunch of blessings / empowerment from other sources as well, so it could be something like (Titans' spirits + Azeroth + Naaru + Elune + the elements + ...) blessing package, for example.

Of course, again, it's just a theory so Blizzard might not go with that route at all. However, I think that's a valid choice if they want us to fight Sargeras at his full power. Otherwise, they'd have to nerf him down to our level instead, which is a bit uncool (IMO).

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

why is a warlock pet called voidwalker when it has no legs?

It's legs are still in the void. O.o

[Inukashi]

oke, here are all the forces
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160313175241

So we have weak representatives in every force and the Shadow has some strong representatives (voidlords)

Are there other strong representatives in the other forces? Are Light and Shadow stronger than the others?

[Al Gorefiend]

Titans, except Sageras, are all dead.
Old Gods cannot be killed without hurting Azeroth.

It's basically the forces of Azeroth and the Naaru VS the Legion and the Void.

You're confusing "dead" with "gone" which is the biggest folly you can make in Warcraft lore.

The Titans can be resurrected and their spirits are still intact iirc. They may be the focus of a later expansion

[Qualia]

oke, here are all the forces
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160313175241

So we have weak representatives in every force and the Shadow has some strong representatives (voidlords)

Are there other strong representatives in the other forces?

I'm not sure how the Titans (Order) and Sargeras (Disorder) are supposed to be "weak representatives" while the Void Lords can be considered "strong representatives". It's hard to say exactly how powerful the Void Lords are (due to the lack of information), but as I said, Chronicle might have implied that the VLs aren't as powerful as Sargeras or the Titans, so...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Maybe he meant "more potent by far" as in, "they'll be the next expansion so of course they'll be 10 levels higher".

[Inukashi]

I'm not sure how the Titans (Order) and Sargeras (Disorder) are supposed to be "weak representatives" while the Void Lords can be considered "strong representatives". It's hard to say exactly how powerful the Void Lords are (due to the lack of information), but as I said, Chronicle might have implied that the VLs aren't as powerful as Sargeras or the Titans, so...

I just thought they could be weak and strong by looking at the graphic. I was implying the stronger something gets the more far away it is from the center.

[Inukashi]

... when we know Sargeras [...] can cleave a planet in half...

What I was always asking myself.. why doesnt he do this? Why does he bother with us? Why does he have plans like destroying the world tree, corrupting little paladins... why doesnt he just hover to azeroth and crush it.. or if he can't crush it because it's a titan egg . Push it a bit away from the sun and see us freeze.

[Qualia]

What I was always asking myself.. why doesnt he do this? Why does he bother with us? Why does he have plans like destroying the world tree, corrupting little paladins... why doesnt he just hover to azeroth and crush it.. or if he can't crush it because it's a titan egg . Push it a bit away from the sun and see us freeze.

Because Sargeras hasn't reached us yet, all his plans so far are to open the way for him to come :P Plus, if we are to trust the "Tome of Blighted Implements", Sargeras want Azeroth to be his now, so I'm not sure if he is still deadbset on destroying us anymore. On the other hand, Archimonde, while being an obedient follower, has his own plans & desires (draining Azeroth's power would supposedly grant him power rivals that of Sargeras).

[Enthralled]

And yeah, Sargeras doesn't want to destroy Azeroth, he wants to woo her.

Shuddering a bit at the thought of what might constitute "wooing" by Sargeras.
As I read that text, his plan is to first forcibly corrupt her before she "hatches", which occurred to me has wider implications because we, her inhabitants are so strong because of her strength. So if she fell, he'd have a force of turbo-charged fel titanic minions, nearly unstoppable.
Once turned to fel and wakened into full form, I do not get the sense that he'd allow her to go anywhere. His plans are for her to be "his".

[Deleted]

All we did was push them back

No we didn't they're dead. Yogg even says ''My corpse will choke this land for all eternity''... corpse... and Cho'gall attempted to ressurect C'thun and you can only ressurect something when it is dead. Blues confirm their deceased status as well.

[MikeBogina]

Both Archimonde and Kil'jaeden would betray Sargeras if it meant they would be more powerful than him. They are doing everything for power so it makes sense.

This is kinda true. In RoC, Archimonde's goal was to consume the second well of eternity and become just as powerful as Sargeras(which is probably hugely retconned now considering how powerful Sargeras really is).
And in sunwell

Kil'jaeden yells: The expendable have perished... So be it! Now I shall succeed where Sargeras could not! I will bleed this wretched world and secure my place as the true master of the Burning Legion. The end has come! Let the unraveling of this world commence!

You never really hear any demon justifying their actions, greater good of the universe and stuff. It's always evil stuff. Kinda funny that the leader of the Legion is probably the least evil of them, because he's doing what he thinks is right.

- - - Updated - - -

No we didn't they're dead. Yogg even says ''My corpse will choke this land for all eternity''... corpse... and Cho'gall attempted to ressurect C'thun and you can only ressurect something when it is dead. Blues confirm their deceased status as well.

Isn't it also stated that they are outside the cycle of life and death, that the same rules dont apply to them? I personally don't think we're done with the God of Death(at least in books/lore)

[Life-Binder]

Chronicle might have implied that the VLs aren't as powerful as Sargeras or the Titans, so...

even the title of this thread disproves that ..

[Qualia]

even the title of this thread disproves that ..

Not really. As I put it in (probably more than) one of my previous posts - the Void Lords don't need to be more powerful than Sargeras for the Void to be a more potent / greater threat than the Legion. They *might* be, but it isn't a must. The possibility of a Void Titan (which is very likely more powerful than Sargeras, with "no power in creation can beat him" and such) being born alone makes the Void / Void Lords a greater / more potent threat. Not to mention that there, technically, can be more than one Void Titan. On the other hand, the Legion's threat mainly revolve around Sargeras alone (KJ / Archimonde are powerful, but no where close). The moment we somehow defeat Sargeras & KJ (assuming Archimonde being dead is still canon), the demons revert back to their disorganized and incompetent selves. Theoretically, we can defeat all powerful Void Lords and the threat of the Void would still be there.

[NightHaawk]

Theoretically, we can defeat all powerful Void Lords and the threat of the Void would still be there.

Have you actually read Chronicle? Because I am yet to see you make any comments that are actually backed up, like saying that chronicle isn't clear about whether Sargeras is weaker than the void lords. Yes he is weaker and they make that VERY obvious. Onto th above comment, the threat of the void IS the void lords. Once they are dealt with we are done unless Blizzard decides to make up something else.

[Qualia]

Have you actually read Chronicle? Because I am yet to see you make any comments that are actually backed up, like saying that chronicle isn't clear about whether Sargeras is weaker than the void lords. Yes he is weaker and they make that VERY obvious. Onto th above comment, the threat of the void IS the void lords. Once they are dealt with we are done unless Blizzard decides to make up something else.

? I'm pretty sure I read Chronicle before you do, unless you also received an early review copy. Not that it would make my points more valid than yours, but I assure you I read it many times already.

I'm not sure how you have yet to see I "make any comments that are actually backed up", unless you just started browsing this a day ago or so. You can check back the Chronicle review thread, or, more recently, I gave my points again yesterday here (click) - with all the quotes you can get from Chronicle as well (in which I was also addressing a guy who was claiming that there wasn't any difference between the Void and the Void Lords).

In regards to your - "Onto the above comment, the threat of the void IS the void lords. Once they are dealt with we are done unless Blizzard decides to make up something else": theoretically, it's not true. The threat of the Void include the possibility of a Void Titan being born, who was described as such: "No power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it". Even *if* we are to defeat all powerful Void Lords, we still risk a Void Titan being born as long as the void energies / Old Gods are still in our universe, which will always be the case unless we go the Sargeras' route of destroying everything.
Of course, practically, in-game, I don't doubt the big fight would be considered over if we defeat the Void Lords, just like how our fight against the Legion will end if we defeat Sargeras, KJ & Archimonde - simply because dealing the remnants repeatedly won't make good / interesting expansion(s). However, it's more about storytelling than being realistic, unless you can find me any quote stating that the moment the Void Lords are defeated, void energies stop existing in our universe (I'm pretty sure you won't find one). That's why I put the "theoretically" word there.

So, if you believe I'm wrong, and that Blizzard made it "VERY obvious" that Sargeras is weaker than the Void Lords - feel free to go ahead and give me the quotes. I'm waiting. Meanwhile, even I, with those quotes, am not 100% certain that Sargeras / the Titans are more powerful than the Void Lords, hence I used "might", "possibly", "could be" and such to indicate that I'm not 100% sure (which should be the same for everyone unless you found something I missed, or you are a Blizzard's employee). I'm very interested in seeing what made you to be so convinced of the Void Lords' power (hopefully, you aren't another "Sargeras was freaked out because of the Void Lords' power" or "The Void Titan is the manifestation of the Void Lord" guy who simply mis-remembered the book). Did you find any feat or anything directly showed the Void Lords' power, by chance?