"Recycling content" (esp. Kara)

[Pawstruck]

It's like Blizz said in the LFG documentary: There are two characters in this game - the player and the world.

TV shows and movies bring back characters all the time. Why do people get all pissy when WoW takes us back to an old locale (and, might I add, one which has been of crucial importance in the Warcraft universe)?

[Xargoth6634]

I don't have a problem with them bringing content back, but imo Kara should've come back as a raid, not a 5 man.

[clevin]

It's like Blizz said in the LFG documentary: There are two characters in this game - the player and the world.

TV shows and movies bring back characters all the time. Why do people get all pissy when WoW takes us back to an old locale (and, might I add, one which has been of crucial importance in the Warcraft universe)?

Because in the past t hey've changed the instace (Deadmines, e.g.) and taken away the original. in TV, I can always watch the early episodes with a character and if they change that character later, I don't lose that ability. In WoW, that's not true - try to raid level 60 Naxx for example.

With Kara, they're doing this right - the original is still there but they are creating a new version of it for Legion that will be a 5 man.

[Servos]

..Why do people get all pissy when WoW...

Two thoughts here
1) Strawman - you are arguing against a ghost
2) "People get all pissy" about anything and everything in WoW (and everywhere really). Imagine a WoW feature that 'everyone would love'. I promise if you implemented that feature there would be a minimum of 1 post here on MMO-C and Battle.net that said why the feature was terrible idea. Doesn't matter what it is.

[ReleaseDay]

Lame and lazy, i.e typical blizz.

[Rakoth]

Lame and lazy, i.e typical blizz.

Your opinion, not one shared by most I suspect.

Blizzard is a modern day software company, they have analytics and surveys and interviews with their customers (you and me) to determine what their majority of paying customers want. The decision to bring in the DH, the Legion, or even Kara, is based on evidence, not whimsy. Ghostcrawler was a marine biologist, but was hired by Blizzard for his ability to make sense of data. Data drives game development, especially one where all the data is available to them. His replacement is probably equally adept at reading Big Data.

WoW has huge data logging potential, and I can guarantee blizzard uses a ton of it. Just like Facebook, Twitter and Google. Doesn't mean they don't sometimes experiment with things, but Kara was not a fluke, it's back because people loved it.

[Shigma]

Aaah, old ZG, how i miss thee...

[inifica]

As long as the recycled content is spruced up a bit -- both graphically and in terms of the encounters -- then I'm ok with it. Especially for old content I really enjoyed, like Karazhan.

[Marston]

Blizzard could do that much more often. Heck, I would love to see story developtment via new dungeons or simple scenarios in older zones.

[Aucald]

"Recycling" content only applies when said content is exactly the same as it previously was (or so close as to have required no real innovation). I don't consider the Cata version of ZG recycled because the bosses are fundamentally different than the original version, although I think you can make the argument for ZA. The entirety of Timewalking content would be recycling because they are literal copy/paste of existing content, with the novel conceit of the player being powered down level-wise so that they feel like current content.

[kary]

"Recycling" content only applies when said content is exactly the same as it previously was (or so close as to have required no real innovation). I don't consider the Cata version of ZG recycled because the bosses are fundamentally different than the original version, although I think you can make the argument for ZA. The entirety of Timewalking content would be recycling because they are literal copy/paste of existing content, with the novel conceit of the player being powered down level-wise so that they feel like current content.

It's strange with ZA. ZA as a raid works as a 5man because 5mans are about as mechanically complex as raids were. ZG would've needed additional mechanics throughout, though.

[Aucald]

It's strange with ZA. ZA as a raid works as a 5man because 5mans are about as mechanically complex as raids were. ZG would've needed additional mechanics throughout, though.

True, and I agree. I think the reason ZG/ZA were received so badly in Cata was because they came to constitute their own tier as opposed to being put in the mix with the other 5-mans - so you ran them constantly, over and over, if you weren't raiding. If the previous dungeons were brought up to match iLvl-wise or if ZG/ZA were in the same tier as the older ones it would've been better (people would've probably preferred the former, of course).

[Dystemper]

Its expanding on it, nor recycling it. Recycling would be to have the exact same raid/dungeon but just call it a new name.

[Adamas102]

The only thing I don't like is when they do away with the original version (and all the items associated with it). This doesn't seem to be the case with Kara since you'll still be able to access the TBC version.

[ReleaseDay]

Your opinion, not one shared by most I suspect.

Blizzard is a modern day software company, they have analytics and surveys and interviews with their customers (you and me) to determine what their majority of paying customers want. The decision to bring in the DH, the Legion, or even Kara, is based on evidence, not whimsy. Ghostcrawler was a marine biologist, but was hired by Blizzard for his ability to make sense of data. Data drives game development, especially one where all the data is available to them. His replacement is probably equally adept at reading Big Data.

WoW has huge data logging potential, and I can guarantee blizzard uses a ton of it. Just like Facebook, Twitter and Google. Doesn't mean they don't sometimes experiment with things, but Kara was not a fluke, it's back because people loved it.

Not many. Sure. 5 million people leaving is just a coincidence.

[sil3ntearth]

I really don't have an issue with Kara because of the lore behind it. Kara is a pretty significant place. I have more of an issue with alternate timelines and killing the same bosses more than anything.

[kary]

True, and I agree. I think the reason ZG/ZA were received so badly in Cata was because they came to constitute their own tier as opposed to being put in the mix with the other 5-mans - so you ran them constantly, over and over, if you weren't raiding. If the previous dungeons were brought up to match iLvl-wise or if ZG/ZA were in the same tier as the older ones it would've been better (people would've probably preferred the former, of course).

Yea... raiding was so easy with zg level gear though. It was the boost people that were struggling needed to get to that higher level... if they chose to pursue the next step.

I actually don't feel badly for people who choose not to raid and beg for more content. The content is there, you choosing not to participate is noone's issue but your own :/

[shaunika123]

I don't have a problem with them bringing content back, but imo Kara should've come back as a raid, not a 5 man.

it was 10 man when 25 man was the norm

now it'S a 5 man when 20 man is the norm, aint exactly much of a step down relatively

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

Why not? Why leave content that was made? Why not take it out of irrelevance and make it relevant again. Even if it just to kill time, seeing as this revamped Kara wont be main story canon, and just side-story element. Better than experiencing another expansion with no #coughcough Troll patch.

[Poshadin]

I honestly love it when they bring the players back to older locales. Seems dumb that certain places are hyped up as so important then never mentioned again.
"Well we need some sort of arcane lore to solve this problem."
"What about that tower that belonged to the world's greatest mage?"
"Nah that was level 70"
"So the world's greatest mage was only level 70? So we're like 100 so by that logic shouldn't we be the greatest?"

I think there's a huge difference between "lore power level" and the game's numbers.

And going back to updated / old content moves the narrative along. They can only keep making up new things for so long before it'll start to get ridiculous. I mean Stormwind and Orgrimmar have been updated more than anything, just to show that old locations are still important.

My only request is that if they update/recycle an older place, that the original is still accessible via some bronze dragon NPC or something.

Perfect example is the "new kharazan" Super important place in lore, and we go back. From what it sounds like the overall place gets a touch up and the bosses are new and not just the same boss NPC from the TBC raid. AND the old TBC kharazan is still there.