How to properly use Phoenix Flames in your rotation?

[Ctee]

I was watching a streamer that said you don't want to use it in your opener, so with 3 charges, when do you want to use it?

[Arthael]

I was watching a streamer that said you don't want to use it in your opener, so with 3 charges, when do you want to use it?

Why wouldn't you use it in your opener?

Pyroblast HC pre-pull
Rune of Power - Combustion at the end of the cast

If the above pyroblast crits:
PF > PB [IB] > PB [IB] > PB [FO + IB] > PB [IB] > PB > PF > PB > PF > PB (as haste permits)
(3 PF, 4 IB, 7 PB)

If the above doesn't crit:
PF[IB] > PB[IB] > PB[FO + IB] > PB[IB] > PB > PF > PB > PF > PB > FB/DB (as haste permits)
(3 PF, 4 IB, 6 PB, 1 FB/DB)

Unless my thinking is way off, which it could be.

[Deleted]

You use it in your opener after you've used upp all your Fire Blast charges (including Flame On) to keep dishing out Pyros during combustion/RoP.

Outside of opener use em as best you can. And as with pretty much everything you shouldn't cap your charges (unless you are just about to pull a boss).

If you want to watch a Fire Mage streamer you should give Xyronic a try over on twitch. He seems to be doing well with his mage in beta.
EDIT: He answers a lot of questions too!

[Ctee]

Lol I think it was him that said that today.

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Why wouldn't you use it in your opener?

Pyroblast HC pre-pull
Rune of Power - Combustion at the end of the cast

If the above pyroblast crits:
PF > PB [IB] > PB [IB] > PB [FO + IB] > PB [IB] > PB > PF > PB > PF > PB (as haste permits)
(3 PF, 4 IB, 7 PB)

If the above doesn't crit:
PF[IB] > PB[IB] > PB[FO + IB] > PB[IB] > PB > PF > PB > PF > PB > FB/DB (as haste permits)
(3 PF, 4 IB, 6 PB, 1 FB/DB)

Unless my thinking is way off, which it could be.

IB? 10 characters

[Deleted]

Old name of Fireblast, instant cast, guaranteed crit, castable while casting, off GCD. Just make sure you tap it after youve thrown the Pyro, else you're munching.

[Deleted]

Lol I think it was him that said that today.

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IB? 10 characters

I doubt it. In his own written "guide" for fire opener/burst he uses PF.

[Deleted]

I was watching a streamer that said you don't want to use it in your opener

Who is that streamer?

[Deleted]

Who is that streamer?

whoever it is, he's been spreading false info.

its a simple math problem, using PF in the opener after having pre-cast pyro will greatly increase your chance of getting a hot streak, roughly speaking it increases your chance by 50% depend on your critrate, significantly taking out a large part of the RNG bcoz you're potentially removing a spell with 100% chance to crit with a spell that doesnt.

[Deleted]

Consider it just like 3 more fireblast charge in your rotation, prioritize it when bursting.. the only thing that is different is the hit time I guess so be carefull

[Deleted]

During combustion, you should really be using Phoenix instead of fireblast as your prio. It does significantly more damage, which is kind of important. You also don't want to use FO and not spend the blasts to start their CD. I essentially replace RoP scorches with phoenix flames, gets more damage out, and you can be mobile if need be.

[Deleted]

During combustion, you should really be using Phoenix instead of fireblast as your prio. It does significantly more damage, which is kind of important. You also don't want to use FO and not spend the blasts to start their CD. I essentially replace RoP scorches with phoenix flames, gets more damage out, and you can be mobile if need be.

god no, what dmg fireblast or PF does is literally unimportant during combust, the only thing that matters is how many hot streaks and pyros you can get during a combust and using PF over fireblast during combust wastes precious time, to put it in perspective, every time you use PF over fireblast during combust you're essentially wasting a gcd that could have been used on a pyro which will actually net you less dmg during combust, i can see the reason behind using scorch over PF during combust tho, it removes the travel time of PF which can give you an extra pyro during combust.

[Deleted]

I suppose that's true, actually, I'äve only done it on the beta and its laggy as f. On live its a lot smoother to squirt out pyroblasts. You've got a good point there, but I would personally still use phoenix instead of scorch, unless thats a huge dmg nerf.

You do bring up a good point though, question is does scorching yield more pyroblasts. Because if you still do X either or, then its better to do more damage than less.

[Deleted]

I suppose that's true, actually, I'äve only done it on the beta and its laggy as f. On live its a lot smoother to squirt out pyroblasts. You've got a good point there, but I would personally still use phoenix instead of scorch, unless thats a huge dmg nerf.

You do bring up a good point though, question is does scorching yield more pyroblasts. Because if you still do X either or, then its better to do more damage than less.

if im not mistaken scorch doesnt have a travel time where PF does have a travel time thats the difference as i see it and spending more time to get your hot streaks is a no no, so i can see the merit in using scorch over PF after you've spent all your fireblasts but i generally use PF myself after ive spent my fire blasts but i usually only get 6 pyroblasts off but that is mainly due to sitting at 180ms, on live i should be able to get 7 pyros off within combust.

[Tyze]

Will Flame On still be best when Fire Mage gets Phoenix Flames?

[Maxie]

Will Flame On still be best when Fire Mage gets Phoenix Flames?

Yes.

10chars

[deadman1]

Will Flame On still be best when Fire Mage gets Phoenix Flames?

Yeah because it can still be used in combust.

[Deleted]

flame on is pretty much your go-to talent in that tier.

[Ctee]

if im not mistaken scorch doesnt have a travel time where PF does have a travel time thats the difference as i see it and spending more time to get your hot streaks is a no no, so i can see the merit in using scorch over PF after you've spent all your fireblasts but i generally use PF myself after ive spent my fire blasts but i usually only get 6 pyroblasts off but that is mainly due to sitting at 180ms, on live i should be able to get 7 pyros off within combust.

Okay so there's been back and forth in this thread. What's the optimal opener and does PF fit inside of it?

[Sylvaeres]

the rotation when you have HS up is simple- ROP>Fireball(or scorch, this is the one part i question about)>combust during the cast time>pyro>pyro>fireblast>pyro>fireblast>pyro>flame on>fireblast>pyro>fireblast>pyro>pf>pyro>pf>pyro>pf>pyro. You use the fire blasts in the beginning since your only real concern is pumping out as many insta pyros as possible

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Okay so there's been back and forth in this thread. What's the optimal opener and does PF fit inside of it?

the end of the combustion phase, after you've used all 4 fireblasts that you get with flame on

[buur]

I was thinking at the end of combustion to take advantage of Pyretic Incantation (once it is unlocked). So Fireball, cast Combustion at the end of the cast > FireBlast > PB > FireBlast > PB > Flame On > FireBlast > PB > FireBlast > PB > PF > PF > PB > PF. Probably missing some fatal flaw here as theorycrafting isn't a strong suit.