do you think the EU will collapse?

[Deleted]

Here is the globalist truth for the future:

For europeans the EU is their nation, their country. The current smaller national governments are just remnants of the past. Any european that wants their own best interest and that if their friends and family should work towards a more federalized EU. It's the only way we can compete with Russia, China, the USA or even the wealthy Arabian oil nations and the globalist banking industry.

Yeah let's ignore the fact that a romanian is totally different than a german. While people are "the same" and/or "equal" at some levels, their nationality, ethnic background and heck their enviroment where they grow up shapes them into being different, special, unique and interesting.

The real goal of EU should be to bring such people together so they can share ideas, opinions and customs. When everyone is "the same" it's a dull world, one optimized for business and not for living.

There is nothing more "european" than for example a romanian marrying a polish women and having a kid, kid who get's to experience both cultures and who learns double making him a better individual than his parents!

[FuxieDK]

just look at whats happening in the EU 1. terrorist attacks more than ever cos of angela merkle letting anyone from the middle east in 2. a failing currency which has been worse off than the £ for quite awhile even with the brexit vote 3. high unemployment in the south of europe which is close to 50% in countries such as portugal and spain for the young 4. more bailouts for greece,italy and others, paid for by the richest members of the EU, which are france,germany,UK and others How long do you think the EU will last, 10 years? 20 years? THE EU will NOT last as its crumbling apart and with al lthe stuff above mentioned its like a crack in a windscreen eventually its gonna break

Some claim, 1992 was the beginning of EU..

I claim, 1992 was the beginning OF THE END for EU..

[Deleted]

The EU as a unified market won't collapse anytime soon. There's just too many benefits to uniting to a 300mio consumer market, both internally and with regards to global trade treaties with China, India or the US.

Schengen has seen some cracks in its armor, and that's the first thing I could see "collapsing", in the way that the EU will have to fortify and control its outer borders. Internal mobility, especially professional mobility, of EU citizens is still something all countries will support & promote.

Immigration and the effects of it is the only reason this discussion is relevant now. Populist nationalist parties are growing like mushrooms due to the impact of unbridled immigration and lack of decisive policy from the EU.

[Kalis]

What are you talking about? Give me a quote or something to work with.

I thought you didn't need to know what you were arguing against to argue against it, what changed?


And in respect of that image; only 6% see European before nationality, with only 3% see themselves as European only, that is a pretty damning indication that Europeans do not see the EU as their nation/country. It is not really surprising, most people I have met regard themselves as British, German, or whatever, foremost.

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"According to a new study published today in the journal Population Development and Review, 61% of citizens within the EU-15 see themselves as European in addition to or in lieu of their national identity in 2013, compared to 58% on average from 1996 to 2004."

In addition to. So most still see their country/nation as Germany or whereever, not that they regard the EU as their country/nation. If the figures given by Mayhem are any indication, the EU is very much second behind nationaly identity.

[Mayhem]

I thought you didn't need to know what you were arguing against to argue against it, what changed?

When did i say that? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

You´re doing everything you can to not provide one shred of source or explanation aren´t you?

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In addition to. So most still see their country/nation as Germany or whereever, not that they regard the EU as their country/nation. If the figures given by Mayhem are any indication, the EU is very much second behind nationaly identity.

How can 62% feel as citizens of the EU but not regard it as their country/nation? Is this a you´re either german or eu citizen but not both type of reasoning?

[shadowmouse]

This is the yearly trend in growth of people identifying as european. Slowly moving towards more european identity.

I think there is an important bit of wiggle room in the study and it doesn't quite back you up as solidly as that sounds.

61% of citizens within the EU-15 see themselves as European in addition to or in lieu of their national identity in 2013

The map is also mildly misleading. For all Daneman's convictions that Scandinavia is an important hub, that's a lot of land to color in for not so many people. On the other hand; the UK, France and Italy have not followed that trend and Spain is looking less than fully on board. That's a pretty hefty chunk of people showing lower or even reduced confidence and willingness to see one's self as part of a continent is still a long way from putting a European identity above national identity.

[Kuntantee]

Whether people realize it is a whole different matter. Also that is a graph from 2009.



This is the yearly trend in growth of people identifying as european. Slowly moving towards more european identity.

Source: European Identity continues to Grow.

This map is a perfect indicator of the sociology in Europe. Those who need EU is increasingly calling themselves European. Take Greece for example, they need a bigger structure for both defense and economical reasons. Similarly, Nordics feel the need against Russia. This will probably be the same for most of the Easter Europe. France and UK needs EU neither economically, nor as a protection. Germany is the leader of EU, and of course they will call themselves European. It is Germany who's reaping all the money out of it.

[Deleted]

You have what now? Sorry, the UK negotiated trade deals with nearly all of the former commonwealth within the past 2 months? Don´t worry, i won´t come crying to either the UK or the US.

former commonwealth, no canada,india,australia etc are all commonwealth countries just cos we joined the EU i nthe 70's doesnt mean the commonwealth just dissapears

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This map is a perfect indicator of the sociology in Europe. Those who need EU is increasingly calling themselves European. Take Greece for example, they need a bigger structure for both defense and economical reasons. Similarly, Nordics feel the need against Russia. This will probably be the same for most of the Easter Europe. France and UK needs EU neither economically, nor as a protection. Germany is the leader of EU, and of course they will call themselves European. It is Germany who's reaping all the money out of it.

angela merkel leader of the 4th reich, i mean EU. not much difference tbh

[Mayhem]

former commonwealth, no canada,india,australia etc are all commonwealth countries just cos we joined the EU i nthe 70's doesnt mean the commonwealth just dissapears

I´m waiting for a source. It was in the news you said?

[Deleted]

The British economy suffering is not in the best interests of the EU, it is a huge economy and would have a detrimental knock on effect for other EU economies.

You have no comprehension of how interwoven the EU economies are. You should do as what happened to Greece showed that even minor economies on the periphery running into trouble cause problems internationally, let alone an economy the size of the UK.

The British economy prospering after a Brexit would have much worst consequences. Do you understand that.

[Deleted]

Pray that it doesn't. Because if it does, most of the Western World is not prepared for what comes next.

[Kalis]

How can 62% feel as citizens of the EU but not regard it as their country/nation? Is this a you´re either german or eu citizen but not both type of reasoning?

Who the hell regards the EU as their country/nation?

I have never heard anyone respond to the question, "Where are you from?" with "The EU" and I have lived and travelled extensively throughout the EU. Everyone uses their country, or sometimes region like Bavaria.

Can you honestly recall anyone ever giving their nationality as EU?

[JusticeJacko]

And some people shouldn't be discussing these subjects. I'm pretty sure if the people who are so concerned about the EU's lack of democracy managed to get a minimum wage job at a production line they'd already be well in over their head and should spend more time on figuring that out instead.

Well quite! The bloody plebs just need to shut up, stop thinking, and do as they are told!!!

No?

[Kalis]

The British economy prospering after a Brexit would have much worst consequences. Do you understand that.

That is not true at all, it would damage the economies of Germany, France, Spain, Ireland, etc., which is not beneficial.

If fear of leaving the EU is regarded as the only benefit of being an EU member, then being a member of the EU is not worth it and the EU will collapse within our lifetimes. EU membership has to be for a positive reason, not a negative one.

You keep coming back to the Death Star reasoning for the EU existing.

[SoundOfGuns]

Would be interesting to see as incompetent governments couldn't use it as a scapegoat for their own policies.

Exactly that.

[Mayhem]

Who the hell regards the EU as their country/nation?

I have never heard anyone respond to the question, "Where are you from?" with "The EU" and I have lived and travelled extensively throughout the EU. Everyone uses their country, or sometimes region like Bavaria.

Can you honestly recall anyone ever giving their nationality as EU?

What does citizen mean in your language? Will a scot tell you he´s from scotland or from the UK? Can he feel related to both?

Where are you from is a rather vague question anyway, since depending on the situation people will answer with country/state/city/district.

[Fathr]

Nothing lasts for ever, and neither will the EU, it will fall! It's only a matter of time, to think anything else is but an illusion. The Roman empire, the Aztecs, The Greeks, the Mongol's, the Byzantine's etc. didn't last so neither will EU (Especially since so many individuals despise the bureaucracy). Heck USA will also probably cease to exist at some point. Nothing is written in stone except that given enough time, things are bound to change.
A good example of why EU will fail is like this:

[Kalis]

I'm sorry but there is some bias there probably because you're from the UK.

Ask around here in Belgium, especially the international big cities such as Brussels, Antwerp or go ask around in Germany and you'll find loads of people telling you they're european.

Yet when they travel abroad, they all say Dutch, Belgian, or whatever. Odd that.

Even the graphic shows that only 3-9% think that is the case, are you sure it is not your sample size that is limited, as opposed to mine?

[Deleted]

I´m waiting for a source. It was in the news you said?

why do i have to provide you with a source do your own research to prove me wrong if your so confident,

[JusticeJacko]

The Brits aren't a good example of anything.

Well of course! I mean it's not like using their imperial might to end slavery in as many places in the world as possible was a good example to anyone.

That damn industrial revolution which has brought billions out of poverty was a bit crap too.

English common law? Pff who needs that!?

Shakespeare? Boring!

The Beatles/Queen/David Bowie and hundreds of other great musicians? Worthless!

Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin? They have undermined people's faith with their damn science!

Effing Brits!