Garrosh has defeated thrall before in Mak'gora

[Deleted]

interesting, in one its melee v melee and elemental powers and not cheating, and the other its the same same, and is cheating, more like head canon fail and shitty ass kosak writing

This is all, in fact. Kosak is worst writer than Metzen. At least Metzen, even writing OP-2 dimensional characters, made them epic. Kosak just destroys characters one by one by making them pansies.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Well doesn't Thrall say something about being more powerful in Draenor because of the 'elements' blah blah during the Mak'gora where he killed Garrosh?

Also lets not forget during SoO they went toe to toe and Garrosh had the Warlock curse the spoil so Thrall couldn't use his Shaman powers, seems pretty underhand tactics.

Personally I think Thrall was holding back the first time, and the second in Draenor. Then he lost it and killed him.

[Torgent]

In the pre-wrath event, you can see thrall kneeling before garrosh after his defeat in Mak'gora.



He lost this one cause he didn't cheat

Discuss

He was very clearly using the elements in that one as well.

Discuss.

[Al Gorefiend]

It is well-known Garrosh is a stronger warrior than Thrall. All the Orcs knew it too which is why Thrall stepped down in Cataclysm.

[TheWindWalker]

I'm fairly sure it's literally brought up in Legion that he did, in fact, by canon, cheat.

[bmjclark]

Thrall used the elements in his first makgora with garrosh and no one complained about him cheating then

[TheWindWalker]

Thrall used the elements in his first makgora with garrosh and no one complained about him cheating then

Difference of scale. If a Mage and Rogue fought but the Mage summoned four elementals after he started losing to hold the Rogue down while he stood there and watched, it'd be kinda cheat-ish.

[Stormspark]

Thrall used the elements in his first makgora with garrosh and no one complained about him cheating then

He used the elements the way an enhancement shaman would. Which is just regular shaman abilities, like a warrior using mortal strike or charge.

What he did on Draenor was different. He didn't just fight back using the elements. He picked Garrosh up in a giant stone hand and then struck him with lightning. There's a bit of a difference with an enh shaman using stormstrike and crash lightning, vs summoning a giant stone hand to immobilize someone and then hitting them with lightning.

It's also hinted that he didn't ask the elements for permission for what he was doing (effectively immobilizing Garrosh and killing him), and that he did it closer to the way a dark shaman would've done it. While he didn't go full on dark shaman, he did abuse the elements for what he did, and it pissed them off.

The elements don't care about mak'gora or its rules, but they do care about being abused that way.

[FelPlague]

It is well-known Garrosh is a stronger warrior than Thrall. All the Orcs knew it too which is why Thrall stepped down in Cataclysm.

uhhh what the utter fuck are you talking about? he stepped down because he had to become the world shaman and couldent spend time leading the horde....

[Shortsy]

The fight was cut short, and since then Thrall became one of the most powerful shaman in Azeroth.

I'm just going to paste my earlier response from a similar reddit post when it comes to the fairness in the second Mak'gora.

The Mak'gora, or duel for honor, leadership or valor, DOES NOT NECESSARILY PROHIBIT OR DISALLOW MAGIC. The rules are often set before the match commences, to allow the participants to prepare whatever arsenal they've agreed to.

The REQUIRED rules are:
+Optional use of a single weapon which can be, but not required to be, enchanted by a shaman.
+No body armor, which neither Garrosh nor Thrall had.
+Each participant must have at least ONE witness, which neither had.
+If both refuse to fight, they are banished forever from their respective clan.

The old clans of Draenor often saw magic as frowned upon, but was NOT considered cowardly unless it was specified beforehand.

Note that the lore of the movie and the game are TWO SEPARATE CANONS. It is very much possible that the movie canon's Mak'gora considers magic forbidden (example of course being the rampant distrust of Gul'dan after he used fel magic against Durotan) but it cannot be basis for the game lore.

Thrall wanted to end his mistake and he did. Thrall 1 - Garrosh 0.

Hope that cleared away some confusion.

[Leyre]

"In retrospect Garrosh knew that he was very lucky the duel had been interrupted, though he would rather have died than admit it. It was no matter. Thrall had come to his senses and finally issued the command to march upon Northrend, a call that Garrosh had taken to with fervor. "

[xChurch]

The fight clearly just didn't last long enough for him to call on his earth fist and give him a hefty dose of lightning death.

[RoKPaNda]

Garrosh was beat up by the players, was a cripple by the time he got to Draenor, was still a cripple when we got to draenor, the player beat him up again, and THEN he still almost trucked Thrall.

[Emek]

Did garrosh spell reflect thralls blood lust? the fuqq type of cheatin bs is that.

[Cerus]

I'm fairly sure it's literally brought up in Legion that he did, in fact, by canon, cheat.

No. He forced the elements to kill Garrosh and they've now left him but he didn't cheat.

[Stormspark]

No. He forced the elements to kill Garrosh and they've now left him but he didn't cheat.

That was the point I was trying to make. The elements aren't angry because of the mak'gora or any rules that may or may not have been broken. They are angry because he didn't go the normal shaman route of asking, he basically just forced the elements to kill Garrosh. He didn't go full on dark shaman and twist them, but they still did NOT appreciate what he did. They will probably eventually forgive him (Drek'thar was once in the same position), but for now he is greatly reduced in power.

[Vichan]

Garrosh was beat up by the players, was a cripple by the time he got to Draenor, was still a cripple when we got to draenor, the player beat him up again, and THEN he still almost trucked Thrall.

i wouldn't call him a cripple, he technically beat the player AND durotan in nagrand, and probably would have killed both if thrall hadn't showed up

[bloodmoth13]

Not sure what just happened, they must have agreed to some different rules there since thrall was using lightning and doomhammer.

Seems kind of silly to pit a shaman against a warrior and tie up the shamans left hand by not allowing him to use the elements, considering thrall relies on the elements to fight, it would be like pitting a kickboxer vs a boxer and telling the kickboxer that he cant kick, in which case the boxer would mop the floor with him due to being more specialized...

Now this brings the 'did thrall cheat' statement back into question, seems that they already agreed in their last duel that anything goes, the final duel simply shows that thrall assumed the rules were the same.

I still think thrall was irresponsible in giving leadership to garrosh, though it may have seemed like the right move at the time. garrosh may have felt that he earnt the position and would be willing to lead the warsong elsewhere if denied, leading to thrall promoting him in the meantime in order to keep things stable while he dealt with deathwing.

[Deleted]

i wouldn't call him a cripple, he technically beat the player AND durotan in nagrand, and probably would have killed both if thrall hadn't showed up

But he was crippled nonetheless; he still has a bandaged hand when we fight him.

Not sure what just happened, they must have agreed to some different rules there since thrall was using lightning and doomhammer.

Seems kind of silly to pit a shaman against a warrior and tie up the shamans left hand by not allowing him to use the elements, considering thrall relies on the elements to fight, it would be like pitting a kickboxer vs a boxer and telling the kickboxer that he cant kick, in which case the boxer would mop the floor with him due to being more specialized...

Now this brings the 'did thrall cheat' statement back into question, seems that they already agreed in their last duel that anything goes, the final duel simply shows that thrall assumed the rules were the same.

I think we can agree that there are worlds between the magnitude of magic used in the former and the latter mak'gora.

After the elements abandon Thrall he can still use some nature magic (see how he can raise the bridges in broken shore and use magic), but that is much rather his own magic than that of the elements.

[Al Gorefiend]

uhhh what the utter fuck are you talking about? he stepped down because he had to become the world shaman and couldent spend time leading the horde....

Dual-reasons. Also the reason he gave it to Garrosh not Vol'Jin, Saurfang, etc.