Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[Endus]

There is no such thing as duty.. and even if there was, its up to every individual to decide what theirs is.

Swing and a miss.
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/le...sponsibilities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize..._States#Duties

This is pretty basic civics.

[JohnBrown1917]

What part of a "progressive consumption tax " did you not understand? The more expensive items would have a higher sales tax on them. Most poor could not afford to buy a Lexus or real silver ware anyway. Some items could even be tax exempt or have the lowest % sales tax on. Such as food. Having bracketed sales tax rates based on the cost of something, would have little impact on the poor who could not normally afford something expensive anyway. But meh, this is a dead topic anyway, not going to happen here in the US.

Because this is the first time i've ever heard of it?

[Deleted]

Swing and a miss.
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/le...sponsibilities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize..._States#Duties

This is pretty basic civics.

Again, whats your point? I personally don't believe in the concept of duty in general but whatever.. the only duty you linked there that sort of applies is taxes. Jury duty isn't really a real thing anyway, you can just say you're biased/racist whatever and get out of it.

And I've already said that I think taxes are needed to keep the country together but I also think that a flat tax would be more fair as everything in life is based on trade. You give something, you get something and both need to be somewhat balanced. Excuses are irrelevant. If you pay more than you get in return or are forced to pay for services you may not even need or can find better alternatives to (supply and demand), then I believe the system isn't working correctly and fairly.

Also another thing, since youre so keen on linking laws and junk. Im a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment and think citizens should have the right to own firearms. However that doesn't mean I think it would be ok for private citizens to own rocket launchers and nuclear subs. Same think with taxes. Reasonable taxation is unfortunately unavoidable. However taking money from the wealthy and using it on things they themselves wont benefit from such as say building homes for the poor is theft and should never be allowed to happen.

[Orbitus]

Again, whats your point? I personally don't believe in the concept of duty in general but whatever.. the only duty you linked there that sort of applies is taxes. Jury duty isn't really a real thing anyway, you can just say you're biased/racist whatever and get out of it.

And I've already said that I think taxes are needed to keep the country together but I also think that a flat tax would be more fair as everything in life is based on trade. You give something, you get something and both need to be somewhat balanced. Excuses are irrelevant. If you pay more than you get in return or are forced to pay for services you may not even need or can find better alternatives to (supply and demand), then I believe the system isn't working correctly and fairly.

Also another thing, since youre so keen on linking laws and junk. Im a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment and think citizens should have the right to own firearms. However that doesn't mean I think it would be ok for private citizens to own rocket launchers and nuclear subs. Same think with taxes. Reasonable taxation is unfortunately unavoidable. However taking money from the wealthy and using it on things they themselves wont benefit from such as say building homes for the poor is theft and should never be allowed to happen.

So you think that there should be MORE people on the streets? You do know what happens when that happens right? It is called and oligarchy and more and more people will turn to crime. That means those wealthy people will often be the targets so the poor people can survive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, AGAIN.

[Deleted]

So you think that there should be MORE people on the streets? You do know what happens when that happens right? It is called and oligarchy and more and more people will turn to crime. That means those wealthy people will often be the targets so the poor people can survive. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about, AGAIN.

Why does that matter? I really dont understand the mental gymnastics you commie/socialist types do to justify taking some private citizens stuff and giving it to someones else by force.

The wealthy arent responsible for those poor people being poor, therefor its not their duty to fix it unless they voluntarily choose to help. Forced charity = theft.

[Endus]

Again, whats your point? I personally don't believe in the concept of duty in general but whatever.. the only duty you linked there that sort of applies is taxes. Jury duty isn't really a real thing anyway, you can just say you're biased/racist whatever and get out of it.

And I've already said that I think taxes are needed to keep the country together but I also think that a flat tax would be more fair as everything in life is based on trade. You give something, you get something and both need to be somewhat balanced. Excuses are irrelevant. If you pay more than you get in return or are forced to pay for services you may not even need or can find better alternatives to (supply and demand), then I believe the system isn't working correctly and fairly.

Also another thing, since youre so keen on linking laws and junk. Im a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment and think citizens should have the right to own firearms. However that doesn't mean I think it would be ok for private citizens to own rocket launchers and nuclear subs. Same think with taxes. Reasonable taxation is unfortunately unavoidable. However taking money from the wealthy and using it on things they themselves wont benefit from such as say building homes for the poor is theft and should never be allowed to happen.

All you're really doing is explaining that you don't understand what taxes are, what the duties of citizenship are, and that you don't give a shit about society in general because you don't see that you're mooching as much as anyone else is.

[Kyriani]

Why does that matter? I really dont understand the mental gymnastics you commie/socialist types do to justify taking some private citizens stuff and giving it to someones else by force.

The wealthy arent responsible for those poor people being poor, therefor its not their duty to fix it unless they voluntarily choose to help. Forced charity = theft.

That type of mentality is a big part of whats wrong with the world today. Its selfish, self-serving, and downright douchebaggy. We are a society. We contribute to make life better for all. Without the masses there would be no wealth to be made. I'm not even sure why I posted since you are obviously not the sort to be bothered for being called out on your douchebaggery but there it is. An "every man for himself" mindset is a detriment to a functional society. Doing your part to contribute to society, even if you don't directly benefit from it, is not theft, and you'd be mindful to remember that without a functional society you wouldn't have the opportunity to get wealthy at all. Eventually someone bigger and badder than you would just stab/shoot you and take your shit, until someone bigger and badder than them came and did the same. A civilized society is far better than such a barbaric way to live.

[Orbitus]

Why does that matter? I really dont understand the mental gymnastics you commie/socialist types do to justify taking some private citizens stuff and giving it to someones else by force.

The wealthy arent responsible for those poor people being poor, therefor its not their duty to fix it unless they voluntarily choose to help. Forced charity = theft.

So I am a commie/socialist for not wanting a rise up of homeless people killing the rich or middle class? There was a historical event just like this. It is called the French Revolution. Where the poor got so fed up of the rich and ruling class that they literally killed them.

And yes, the wealthy ARE responsible for the poor being poor. If the poor don't buy the wealthy peoples' products, the wealthy wouldn't exist. Also there is no forced, charity, unless you are part of some ridiculous religion like Catholicism, Scientology, or whatever where you are forced to tithe or lose all respect of the church and be excommunicated. That is forced charity. Which is why if we taxed all religious bullshittery, we could literally house EVERY SINGLE HOMELESS PERSON in this country.

Also if you don't want to pay taxes, don't. See where that gets you. Thrown in jail for tax evasion. It is literally your duty as a citizen to pay it. If you don't want to pay, RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP and move to Somalia. I hear it is wonderful there without taxes.

[Deleted]

All you're really doing is explaining that you don't understand what taxes are, what the duties of citizenship are, and that you don't give a shit about society in general because you don't see that you're mooching as much as anyone else is.

Well yes and no. You're right, as a reasonable anarchist (real anarchy could never work as some people just wouldnt play nice and would try to use force to fill the power vacuum), I believe everyone should be able to choose what they do, who they care about, their duties or lack thereof, themselves as long as they arent a danger to others.

In the real world however, sadly we have to sacrifice some of those freedom so we wouldn't lose them all, Im just against anything that isn't absolutely necessary to prevent that from happening.

Oh and as for laws, they are not absolute, they are full of loopholes, stupid stuff and "good faith" laws. This is actually why the people who are willing to seek them out and exploit them(while not necessarily doing anything illegal) get an upper hand vs the "honest, dutiful dummies". So the smaller, the more transparent and simple the tax system is, the fairer the playground, I think.

[iperson]

lol at the people who think rich people pay income taxes. Steve Jobs had an annual salary of $1. What do you think his income tax rate was? The only "fair" tax system is based on consumption, not savings/earnings.

[Deleted]

So I am a commie/socialist for not wanting a rise up of homeless people killing the rich or middle class? There was a historical event just like this. It is called the French Revolution. Where the poor got so fed up of the rich and ruling class that they literally killed them.

And yes, the wealthy ARE responsible for the poor being poor. If the poor don't buy the wealthy peoples' products, the wealthy wouldn't exist. Also there is no forced, charity, unless you are part of some ridiculous religion like Catholicism, Scientology, or whatever where you are forced to tithe or lose all respect of the church and be excommunicated. That is forced charity. Which is why if we taxed all religious bullshittery, we could literally house EVERY SINGLE HOMELESS PERSON in this country.

Also if you don't want to pay taxes, don't. See where that gets you. Thrown in jail for tax evasion. It is literally your duty as a citizen to pay it. If you don't want to pay, RENOUNCE YOUR CITIZENSHIP and move to Somalia. I hear it is wonderful there without taxes.

Ok seriously, what the hell? Basically poor people not getting free stuff that doesn't belong to them means they will try to take it by force according to you? And even worse, you actually think if that was the case, we should just pay the terrorists? Also you are one of those people who isn't obviously capable of grasping the concept of consent.

No one is forcing the poor to buy anything, they choose to do it.. they get the goods, the merchant gets the money, Done! If some other company provides a better service, they can go buy from them. There is no law that forces the poor to buy x amount of goods from company y. Its all voluntary, as charity should be.

[JohnBrown1917]

Why does that matter? I really dont understand the mental gymnastics you commie/socialist types do to justify taking some private citizens stuff and giving it to someones else by force.

The wealthy arent responsible for those poor people being poor, therefor its not their duty to fix it unless they voluntarily choose to help. Forced charity = theft.

As the token socialist in this forum, I really not care how the super rich think.
The majority often wins in a proper democracy, you won't see the worker class and the poor voting against their own interests by being in favour of flat taxes.


But rather funny you see everybody who does not like flat taxes as commies lol.

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lol at the people who think rich people pay income taxes. Steve Jobs had an annual salary of $1. What do you think his income tax rate was? The only "fair" tax system is based on consumption, not savings/earnings.

Or you close the loop holes.

[Deleted]

But rather funny you see everybody who does not like flat taxes as commies lol..

Nope, I think anyone who puts collectivism above individual rights and is for using force to promote unfairness for "the greater good" is a commie.

[Endus]

Nope, I think anyone who puts collectivism above individual rights and is for using force to promote unfairness for "the greater good" is a commie.

Then we can add "communism" and "equity" to the list of concepts you don't understand.

Equality isn't equity. When you've got one hamburger left, and the only two people expressing an interest are Fat Georgie who's already had 5 burgers, and a guy who's emaciated and hasn't eaten in three days, your argument is that they should split the burger. That's not "fair", not even remotely.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Consensual contracts. That's what the military is, a consensual contract between two agreeing parties. If you don't agree with it, I guess you also have a problem with public and private sector pensions.

Furthermore, I don't necessarily have a problem with food stamps, I have a problem with tax credits that only some people are eligible for I.E. EITC

It's not just the pensions, isn't the whole package. It's extremely cushy.

And I don't have a problem with it, just point out to the military people, who tend to lean against government and government programs, that they're some of the biggest beneficiaries of government programs.

More people should get military-like benefits from the government, we'd have all around less need for welfare in general.

[iperson]

Then we can add "communism" and "equity" to the list of concepts you don't understand.

Equality isn't equity. When you've got one hamburger left, and the only two people expressing an interest are Fat Georgie who's already had 5 burgers, and a guy who's emaciated and hasn't eaten in three days, your argument is that they should split the burger. That's not "fair", not even remotely.

This is child's logic.

[Orbitus]

Ok seriously, what the hell? Basically poor people not getting free stuff that doesn't belong to them means they will try to take it by force according to you? And even worse, you actually think if that was the case, we should just pay the terrorists? Also you are one of those people who isn't obviously capable of grasping the concept of consent.

No one is forcing the poor to buy anything, they choose to do it.. they get the goods, the merchant gets the money, Done! If some other company provides a better service, they can go buy from them. There is no law that forces the poor to buy x amount of goods from company y. Its all voluntary, as charity should be.

You clearly don't understand the basic concepts of government, economics or pretty much anything that is posted on this forum. Maybe, its time for you to go back to high school.

[Deleted]

Then we can add "communism" and "equity" to the list of concepts you don't understand.

Equality isn't equity. When you've got one hamburger left, and the only two people expressing an interest are Fat Georgie who's already had 5 burgers, and a guy who's emaciated and hasn't eaten in three days, your argument is that they should split the burger. That's not "fair", not even remotely.

Well theres this thing called ownership. Depends on who the owner of this burger is. If Fat Georgie has already paid for it, he should be able to eat it and enjoy every bite. Same goes for Hungry Harry or whatever hes name is.

My point is that other peoples needs are their own responsibility, not of a stranger. If they can't fill them themselves, they could beg, ask for help or perhaps some kind of social system should be set in place that isn't based on stealing. Say a loan they can either pay back later or work if they can't (or join the army, sign up as guinea pigs for science.. doesnt matter).

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You clearly don't understand the basic concepts of government, economics or pretty much anything that is posted on this forum. Maybe, its time for you to go back to high school.

Or maybe you're just misguided, delusional and should follow your own advice.

[Endus]

This is child's logic.

What "logic"? The fact that equality generally isn't equitable is a truism. It's like saying nobody should be allowed to have an ice cream unless EVERYONE gets an ice cream, no matter if those others want it or not. Yes, that's ridiculous, but it's ridiculous because the call for unthinking equality is itself ridiculous and unfair.

[Orbitus]

Well theres this thing called ownership. Depends on who the owner of this burger is. If Fat Georgie has already paid for it, he should be able to eat it and enjoy every bite. Same goes for Hungry Harry or whatever hes name is.

My point is that other peoples needs are their own responsibility, not of a stranger. If they can't fill them themselves, they could beg, ask for help or perhaps some kind of social system should be set in place that isn't based on stealing. Say a loan they can either pay back later or work if they can't (or join the army, sign up as guinea pigs for science.. doesnt matter).

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Or maybe you're just misguided, delusional and should follow your own advice.

I clearly have a stronger grasp on taxes, citizenship, and most other things on this forum. If I don't know anything, I either research it or stay out of it. I don't go spouting off at the mouth thinking I know something about it, when you have clearly shown you don't know anything.