Colin Kaepernick: I won't stand 'to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses

[shimerra]

Yeah white people were slaves in previous centuries too. It isn't an excuse for anything in the present.

Actually those are two extremely different situation. The main issue is in the ability of slaves to integrate into regular society. For example in rome there were pretty damn good provisions for slaves to integrate into society once they became free men. And a key difference between the majority of Roman slaves and Americans slaves is once a Roman slave became a free man unless they explicitly told you they used to be a slave you had zero clue they were.

The cultural attitude to behind slavery and which type of people were enslaved in America was totally 100% different. In Rome the attitude was more of a typical right of the conquer to enslave the conquered, but if you were free you were free. The blatant discrimination against non-Roman ethnic persons while still existent to some extant is in no way comparable to the treatment of black slaves in America or black free men. A black slave becoming a free person in ancient Rome would still have gotten a little shit, but nowhere near the amount that a black person in America would have. I mean hell nearly 100 years after the end of slavery we had to send the national guard to ensure that black children could attend the same school as white children and a white's only pool was drained because a black woman touched the water. Even certain programs like the GI bill and federal housing loans were biased towards white people well after the ending of slavery. The issue isn't just slavery, but the social attitude used to justify slavery in the first place which didn't magically disappear after the civil war ended.

Learn your history. Yes every race has had some sort of system of slavery. But that doesn't mean that the institutions were even remotely identical.

[yetgdhfgh]

I will quote another great man to retort what you say.

I guess iam just a realist

[Killadrix]

I don't know why this is news.

If this guy's conscience is telling him not to stand, then he shouldn't stand.

Doesn't matter to me what he's being paid, who is paying him or for what he is protesting.

I love how people are shitting on this guy as being unpatriotic when what he's (in essence) doing is exercising his 1st amendment right to peacefully protest lol...

[GennGreymane]

I guess iam just a realist

Hanging onto symbols and not the actual ideas behind them does not make you a realist. Materialistic is a better term.

BTW LGBT activists burned flags too.

[yetgdhfgh]

Hanging onto symbols and not the actual ideas behind them does not make you a realist. Materialistic is a better term.

You give the human race too much credit! We are no better than the monkeys we came from, humans will always be tribalistic animals clinging on to symbols cause they give us comfort and a reason to fight for.

[GennGreymane]

So wise. So beautiful. So... Poetic.

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Yeah they are morons.

Why cant I quit you.

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You give the human race too much credit! We are no better than the monkeys we came from, humans will always be tribalistic animals clinging on to symbols cause they give us comfort and a reason to fight for.

I give no one any credit. I simply point out the truth. And that argument is far from realism.

[yetgdhfgh]

I give no one any credit. I simply point out the truth.

The only truth is nothing matters but humans will fight to death to cling on to things that they think matters which is flag, country etc etc

[GennGreymane]

The only truth is nothing matters but humans will fight to death to cling on to things that they think matters which is flag, country etc etc

That is misplaced idealism (a weak form of that, since it does not include any ideals). A realist would say humans want security, ability to live as they choose, and to have their needs met. All of these are met by living within a society.

[GennGreymane]

Because you are sexually attracted to Dragonite, like everyone with a brain is.

dem wings, dat tail.

[yetgdhfgh]

That is misplaced idealism. A realist would say humans want security, ability to live as they choose, and to have their needs met. All of these are met by living within a society.

But we both know that always dont work out the way it should. Humans are amazing when it comes to dividing themselves they can come up with anything to fight for. Hell i used to be involved in football violence where i would kick your head in for what football team you supported now i dont do that anymore but i where is the logic in that?

I wouldve died for my football team back in my 20s

[GennGreymane]

But we both know that always dont work out the way it should. Humans are amazing when it comes to dividing themselves they can come up with anything to fight for. Hell i used to be involved in football violence where i would kick your head in for what football team you supported now i dont do that anymore but i where is the logic in that?

I wouldve died for my football team back in my 20s

Then its not realism. Its misplaced idealism.

[yetgdhfgh]

Then its not realism. Its misplaced idealism.

Define realism?

[GennGreymane]

Define realism?

Doing things out of necessary interest. An example on the human level would be tribes fighting over hunting grounds.

Realism at the nation level would be
emphasizing the role of the nation-state and makes a broad assumption that all nation-states are motivated by national interests, or, at best, national interests disguised as moral concerns.

You assume the flag is what matters. Its not, the flag is used as a ploy.

[dark666105]

Frankly he can do as he pleases though I think the message he paired with it is a little misguided.

[yetgdhfgh]

Doing things out of necessary interest. An example on the human level would be tribes fighting over hunting grounds.

But we dont need to do that anymore but it doesnt mean that instinct is not ticking away in our subconsciousness. Look at trump he is appealing to those who think people are taking away there resources IE hunting grounds now sure nowdays its absurd but in our subconsciousness it appeals to our base animal instinct to be tribalistic and to protect our own for our own survival.

Like i said we are no better than the tribalistic monkeys we came from it will always be in us no matter how much we suppress it otherwise racism would've been eliminated centuries ago!

[GennGreymane]

But we dont need to do that anymore but it doesnt mean that instinct is not ticking away in our subconsciousness. Look at trump he is appealing to those who think people are taking away there resources IE hunting grounds now sure nowdays its absurd but in our subconsciousness it appeals to our base animal instinct to be tribalistic and to protect our own for our own survival.

Like i said we are no better than the tribalistic monkeys we came from it will always be in us no matter how much we suppress it otherwise racism would've been eliminated centuries ago!

Now you are actually talking about realistic things, and not the ploys. The flag is a ploy. Much like other fake moral reasons the elite would have the citizenry fight to the death. The elites in the wars thought for "god" were actually for trade routes, control, wealth.

[Spunt]

Nationalism is a disease.

Anarchy is the cure, BURN IT ALL DOWN!

[The One Percent]

So don't fucking stand. Who gives a fuck, I don't stand for anthems either. In the end, everyone is out for themselves so why the fuck would you be proud to be part of a country? It's just a collective of people banding together for self preservation and to try to garner the best position possible in that collective.

[GennGreymane]

Nationalism is a disease.

Indeed it is. Its what is used to get people to fight in your interests and not their own.

Now, would it be rational for someone to say the following;

I am so proud myself because of the accomplishments of others, its almost like I am apart of those accomplishments because I lived in the same arbitrary area as the one who did all the work,

I am proud of this particular regions history. I have not participated in any of it, yet I feel proud of it,

I hate the guy across this made up line, they are different due to being across that line.

These are all rational sounding when nationalism/patriotism is used instead.

[ovm33]

I will repeat the exact same thing I hear the lefties on here say all the time:

Freedom of Speech, or expression in this case, does not mean freedom from consequences.

Just imagine the massive shit storm that would envelope the NFL if he stated he was sitting because Gay Marriage was now legal. An NFL stadium is not the place for a political protest one way or another. He should be fined or suspended. Allowing this to stand, regardless of the validity of his opinions, is just bad business. What about the next player who does decide to sit because of Gay Marriage, or immigration, or abortion, or whatever political hot button issue you can think of? How can you punish that person without punishing this guy?

One final point... This man was in the middle of his "work day." What would happen to you if you held some sort of political protest at your job?