UK to replace human rights act

[Deleted]

http://www.euronews.com/2016/08/28/u...man-rights-act



Any thoughts on this?

fucking disgrace.

[Deleted]

They can't, which I'm sure people have pointed out by now. Unless they also decide to leave the Council of Europe.

And even if they would, it would be 'bye bye' to single market access. It's really ridiculous that Brexiteers don't understand they won't be able to get rid of their open borders for europeans... This whole referendum was a ridiculous circus and the only thing that was proven was that a big part of the UK are uneducated and don't understand how anything works or have the foresight to understand the consequences of their choices, and sadly it seems UK politicians didn't understand it either since all these realizations are only slowly setting in now...

"The democratic vote of the people must be upheld," not when they vote to jump off a cliff it doesn't, fucking dolts.

Yes. Yes it does. And we'll all be sitting watching that cliff

[Theodarzna]

They can't, which I'm sure people have pointed out by now. Unless they also decide to leave the Council of Europe.

And even if they would, it would be 'bye bye' to single market access. It's really ridiculous that Brexiteers don't understand they won't be able to get rid of their open borders for europeans... This whole referendum was a ridiculous circus and the only thing that was proven was that a big part of the UK are uneducated and don't understand how anything works or have the foresight to understand the consequences of their choices, and sadly it seems UK politicians didn't understand it either since all these realizations are only slowly setting in now...

"The democratic vote of the people must be upheld," not when they vote to jump off a cliff it doesn't, fucking dolts.

What are the sorts of votes that need to be respected?

[Theodarzna]

Well it is a difficult question and that is why you asked it. It's not easy to tell when a certain political choice equates to your country deciding to put the barrel of a shutgun in it's mouth and pull the trigger, but that is in every way and angle I look at it exactly what the Brexit choice was. It even completely destabilized the UK itself up to the point it's own member states are considering leaving (Scotland and Northern ireland).

I suppose countries and people should have the right to make those kinda votes, but.... you'd hope they'd be better educated and wouldn't.

One thing I've disliked about remainers is their rancid elitism and general anti-democratic attitude. For the most part Britain seems fine, the world did not end. I would say if people are not allowed to make decisions politically that have any gravity to them, then why even have votes? Why not say put, idk a sole leader in charge? And for security make that position hereditary so generation to generation each leader will be sort of like their ancestors? Yeah, and give them absolute power.

All kidding aside, what is the point of a democracy were you can't vote on anything of consequence?

Your sig quote says "21st Century Thinking: "Politicians will solve our problems!"" But it was the political class that wanted to stay in the EU, it was those unwashed masses elsewhere that wanted out.

[Theodarzna]

Eh. It's just a matter of accepting reality. It's not a nice thing to say but at some point you must accept the things for what they are. The Brexit-campaigners were vulgar degenerates with a lack of education -or- opportunistic politicians that didn't even expect to win (and fled with their tails between their legs once it became clear they actually won but had not prepared any plans for after a Brexit vote).

When every single academic and specialist, from the left-wing up to the right-wing is pointing out the pointless or economical disastrous consequences of a Brexit on the long run, while the other side just goes "fuck immigrants! fuck EU!" and brings a whole bunch of misinformation to the table, what is the point then of pretending that both are equally valid choices. What is the point between pretending that "securing our economy" and "burning it down" are equally valid choices?

It's the same farce that is going on in the USA. Where we have to pretend, even on this forum, that somehow the republican vote is an equally respectable vote while that party is rife with racism, vulgarity, and nutcase religious fundamentalism costing the lives of young mothers (because of refusing to give them proper medical attention and healthcare or abortions) and the continued discrimination against gay or colored people.

i'm sorry but at some point manners and realism matter. Would you like to live in a society that accepts the dogma that "rape is bad, end of discussion" or one in which it's considered an acceptable political opinion to argue that "rape is alright" ?

The issue isn't the system of democracy. The issue is that certain topics are becoming so advanced and technical for common citizens that it becomes much easier to fool them and to make them believe that "rape is alright", because they don't have the technical know-how or insight in understand that "rape is bad". Just like they didn't understand the consequences of Brexit and didn't understand that no matter what they voted they'd still end up within the single market and would still have to accept the EU rules and regulations. It was basically a choice between: A) Do you want your government to have any influence on EU policy -or- B) Do you want your government to be subject to EU policy without being able to influence it / while also taking a hit to your economic prosperity?

No matter what angle you try to investigate this in, there are no positives for the UK citizens after a Brexit. It's only negatives.

To quote Hannah Arendt:

[T]here are, indeed, few things that are more frightening than the steadily increasing prestige of scientifically minded brain trusters in the councils of government during the last decades. The trouble is not that they are cold-blooded enough to “think the unthinkable,” but that they do not think.

However I will say, then why have Democracy at all? If we have the absolute and definitively correct path, why let the dirty plebs have a say? Are issues technically complex or are they presented as technically complex?

In the example of rape, is it that the common people think Rape = Okay, or that the common people disagree with some elites from Oxford and Cambridge about what constitutes rape?

[Theodarzna]

Why do you take democracy as the absolute and definitely correct path, the final solution to all our problems, the flawless system?

I don't. I do not believe in Last and Final dispensation or social order.

The pursuit of such a thing is a waste of time.

I am just curious what YOUR answer is.

[Theodarzna]

My answer is the same, that there is no last and final solution. That is the main reason why I consider myself an anarchist / libertarian. Because I believe the people should always be vigilant about every system and be willing to replace and improve upon it when massive flaws (or corruption) are obvious. What we have right now is the opposite, we have a dystopia in which everyone is aware of the corruption and the massive inequality between the wealthy and the poor, between the owners of production and the workforce, between the elites and the common families, but everyone is quite alright with keeping their eyes shut and accepting it. Everyone knew that humans rights were being violated in Guantanamo Bay, everyone knows the CIA and FBI do a lot of illegal grotesque unacceptable stuff. Everyone knows the banks were given trillions of dollars to protect them from going bankrupt after they fucked up the entire economy and stole money from every single person on the planet, but everyone accepts it.

And how would have staying in the EU have done much about that. I mean when you look at it, it follows fairly Neo-Liberal guidelines and prescriptions to economic chaos, and seems rigidly technocratic (Which is a nice word for little managerial tyrants doing the bidding of wealthy backers) such as with Morti and whoever they put in charge of Greece.

Idk, but it seems like some people are acting as if the EU is some panacea for these things, OR perhaps that Britain committed some sin against God for its people voting to not be part of this uncertain project.

I guess I am asking, is there nothing about the EU you could see justifying a leave vote other than "Those fools were duped!"

[yetgdhfgh]

This is all about the fact we can not get rid of criminals/terrorists who have broken the law but claim asylum and when we try to get rid of them they hide under the umbrella of ECHR and the 'Right to a family life' etc etc.

Christ i mean how long did it take for us to get rid off https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Qatada !

There is only so much a countries generosity can be used and abused before the people say 'NO MORE'

[Theodarzna]

The EU has it's own problems and even within the EU organisations corruption should be weeded out, but I don't think this is relevant to the Brexit discussion.

In purely practical terms what the vote was was between a Brexit and a non-Brexit. From a purely practical point of view, the UK is unable to leave the EU, and it shows in this very thread. They left the EU, but they are still part of a dozen other european political entities, such as the Council of Europe, which will enforce them to follow the Human Rights Act, even if their politicians decide to do differently, the EU courts will bring down the hammer on them and cause serious chaos.

I myself was a staunch defender of Greece against the corrupt banking and EU policies. (but most of this forum at the time was going: "Lol, lazy Greek fucks, pay your bills and work harder!") I'm absolutely fine with people wanting to reform the EU, or wanting to leave the EU -if- it isn't just a botched suicide attempt like the Brexit is without any real consequences beyond self-harm.

I think the UK was always an odd fit in the EU, It itself is a Union within a Union. Plus it along with Ireland have a wholly separate legal tradition and customs.

I personally see the EU as a bit of a mess with some good ideas. Namely the aid it gave to the Welsh language and other minority languages in Britain. But much of the bad things of the EU seemed to be consistently glossed over by the "Super importance of the Project," of course the "Project," seems to vary from person to person on what it is supposed to be.

[Powerogue]

What it's being replaced by should be the important part, not what it's replacing.

[Kalis]

I am extremely concerned about a government that has not even been elected making changes to human rights laws (or any laws for that matter), especially a TORY government.

The Conservative Party (commonly known as the Tory Party) won the 2015 General Election and has a mandate until 2020. It was in all the papers.

Labour Party came second, SNP third and the Liberal Democrats stopped being relevant.

[Deleted]

Is the current human rights act infallible, then?

[Noradin]

As long as the UK upholds its commitments on Minority language rights, I am fine with it. One of the few reasons I could think to be in the remain camp was that very issue, and to strongly encourage my sister to vote remain.

That is unlikely, just look at where the funds to preserve these come from.
England has always worked to get rid of them.

- - - Updated - - -

Over 17 million people who voted for Brexit, did you forget? I am here to remind you

Yes, we remember that you do not know what you are talking about, specifically that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution.

- - - Updated - - -

I think its definitely right to review current human rights legislation. I don't believe prisoners should vote and foreign people who commit crimes should be subject to deportation depending on the severity of the crime.

Very good! So in future, if you want to get rid of a minority just outlaw them and throw them in prison, they won't have an recourse since they lose their 'right' to vote.

[risingforce]

I can understand that people might like their sovereignty, but this strikes me as being unbelievably petty.

The Human Rights act is an abomination, used and abused for today's criminals.

Nigerian who rapes a 14yo girl on the train -oh he can stay because (1) he owns a pet cat == he has a life in the UK and (2) get this, turns out he's told his lawyers he's gay -so can't be deported either. I'm summarising but it's a real case and a god damned example of what the Human Rights has become.

I am sure that Human Rights was a noble idea and has served many great purposed, but it is abused and acts as a gravy train for Human Rights lawyers looking for big money defending scum.

So glad we are getting rid of it!

[dribbles]

the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution

The European Court of Human Rights is an institution of Europe, something, since Independence Day we voted not to be a part of.

[Deleted]

Dribbles do you even read posts?

[Mayhem]

A complete hijacking by the elite. Unelected bureaucrat's legislating law. A huge transfer of power to a government more right wing than Thatcher.

Additions will most likely include everything that got booted in the 'snoopers charter.'

Looks like the Brexiters are getting pretty much everything they´ve accused the EU of being.

[Kalis]

The European Court of Human Rights is an institution of Europe, something, since Independence Day we voted not to be a part of.

The problems we have had with the ECHR and those we have had with the EU are separate issues.

And that whole 'Independence Day' thing is far too cheesy. Stop with that silliness.

[Deleted]

Dribbles is not only arguing against a political entity they're naturally part of.
He wants to change geography.

Oh how I'm going to enjoy watching that political side disappear.

[Deleted]

The European Court of Human Rights is an institution of Europe, something, since Independence Day we voted not to be a part of.

You have zero clue about how all the different international institutions work, eh?