...I tried finding the answer, leveling spec.

[Slicer299]

I tried the leveling spec as suggested, and it absolutely does not work. The pet summoned via Black Arrow is way too squishy. On the very first quest to get the MM artifact weapon, single mobs were two shotting the pet. I think the main issue with the suggestion to level MM and use the Black Arrow minion to hold threat only works for super geared players like Azortharion, the 740+ crowd who can actually kill the mobs quick enough that the pet getting 2 shot doesn't matter and can kill the mobs fast enough to be able to constantly cast Black Arrow.

It does not work for the average player. I went into Legion at 714 ilvl with the 4 piece bonus, so I'm not exactly running around in LFR gear. While stuff may die quicker as MM + Lone Wolf, the leveling process is going much smoother for someone like myself, not in Mythic Warforged gear, by doing things the old fashioned way. With a pet and managing that pet to hold aggro and take damage for me. I've been playing a Hunter for almost 8 years now, so this is not a "L2P" issue. Azortharion, I love your guides, but for something like a leveling guide, you need to take into consideration people other than just the top end players.

[Piene]

I tried the leveling spec as suggested, and it absolutely does not work. The pet summoned via Black Arrow is way too squishy. On the very first quest to get the MM artifact weapon, single mobs were two shotting the pet. I think the main issue with the suggestion to level MM and use the Black Arrow minion to hold threat only works for super geared players like Azortharion, the 740+ crowd who can actually kill the mobs quick enough that the pet getting 2 shot doesn't matter and can kill the mobs fast enough to be able to constantly cast Black Arrow.

It does not work for the average player. I went into Legion at 714 ilvl with the 4 piece bonus, so I'm not exactly running around in LFR gear. While stuff may die quicker as MM + Lone Wolf, the leveling process is going much smoother for someone like myself, not in Mythic Warforged gear, by doing things the old fashioned way. With a pet and managing that pet to hold aggro and take damage for me. I've been playing a Hunter for almost 8 years now, so this is not a "L2P" issue. Azortharion, I love your guides, but for something like a leveling guide, you need to take into consideration people other than just the top end players.

I'm following the guide, started with ~710 gear, no set bonus, absolutely no problem so far (though I'm only 105, didn't have much time yet, maybe it gets worse later on?).
I started in Aszuna and was able to pull & kill 5+ mobs easily with sidewinders+marked shot (this got a bit harder in Stormheim, sometimes needed Binding shot). The Exhilaration spam makes it super trivial.

[De Lupe]

Level as whatever you want.

Also, Surv is totally fun.

[Deleted]

I am using LW and had problem only 1 time. Usually i can pull 5-6-7 mobs at once.

[Themanintobuildafire]

I tried the leveling spec as suggested, and it absolutely does not work. The pet summoned via Black Arrow is way too squishy. On the very first quest to get the MM artifact weapon, single mobs were two shotting the pet. I think the main issue with the suggestion to level MM and use the Black Arrow minion to hold threat only works for super geared players like Azortharion, the 740+ crowd who can actually kill the mobs quick enough that the pet getting 2 shot doesn't matter and can kill the mobs fast enough to be able to constantly cast Black Arrow.

It does not work for the average player. I went into Legion at 714 ilvl with the 4 piece bonus, so I'm not exactly running around in LFR gear. While stuff may die quicker as MM + Lone Wolf, the leveling process is going much smoother for someone like myself, not in Mythic Warforged gear, by doing things the old fashioned way. With a pet and managing that pet to hold aggro and take damage for me. I've been playing a Hunter for almost 8 years now, so this is not a "L2P" issue. Azortharion, I love your guides, but for something like a leveling guide, you need to take into consideration people other than just the top end players.

I have to say the quest to get the artifact is actually really over tuned compared to the stuff you fight once you have the artifact. Going into the artifact quest I was 735 w/ 746 mythic warforged bow and I found it was harder than expected. Maybe the trick is, you have to use ALL your utility. You can't just tank the mobs, you should be using CS and kiting. Also I have blademaster trinket and the ring for when things really hit the fan, but overall MM is great and black arrow is great.

Wait till you are questing...black arrow has saved my butt countless times. I use it on every mini boss I fight and by keeping distance, by the time the boss gets to me BA is back up ready to take away aggro...which you only need for a few seconds to get distance again. MM isn't SV where you tank it face to face...get some distance up there.

I find usually I just melt things as MM.

As someone said though, go with your own playstyle. I have 4 hunters. My next one I will try to level as BM just to have a realistic comparison between the two.

[Slicer299]

I have to say the quest to get the artifact is actually really over tuned compared to the stuff you fight once you have the artifact. Going into the artifact quest I was 735 w/ 746 mythic warforged bow and I found it was harder than expected. Maybe the trick is, you have to use ALL your utility. You can't just tank the mobs, you should be using CS and kiting. Also I have blademaster trinket and the ring for when things really hit the fan, but overall MM is great and black arrow is great.

Wait till you are questing...black arrow has saved my butt countless times. I use it on every mini boss I fight and by keeping distance, by the time the boss gets to me BA is back up ready to take away aggro...which you only need for a few seconds to get distance again. MM isn't SV where you tank it face to face...get some distance up there.

I find usually I just melt things as MM.

As someone said though, go with your own playstyle. I have 4 hunters. My next one I will try to level as BM just to have a realistic comparison between the two.

That's kind of the point I was getting at. While greatly appreciate was Azortharion does, his whole "do it my way, and only my way, or you're wrong and a bad person" attitude towards this is really not called for. Pure numbers can't be debated, but works better for different people when it comes to leveling, there is no one way to do things.

I do agree that things are much easier to deal with outside that initial scenario to get the weapon. But that doesn't change the fact that stuff in that scenario was 2 shotting the Black Arrow minion. The Felguards in particular. If I had to deal with one of them, plus additional adds, I was having to break out every tool in my arsenal just to stay alive. But that's not something anyone should have to deal with during the leveling process. If every pack, or even every other pack, requires the use of all your CDs, something is seriously wrong. I'll take killing that pack 5 seconds slower if it's easier to deal with.

Yes, again, mobs did get easier, but I personally find using the pet to be a more enjoyable way to level.

[tithian]

I tried the leveling spec as suggested, and it absolutely does not work. The pet summoned via Black Arrow is way too squishy. On the very first quest to get the MM artifact weapon, single mobs were two shotting the pet. I think the main issue with the suggestion to level MM and use the Black Arrow minion to hold threat only works for super geared players like Azortharion, the 740+ crowd who can actually kill the mobs quick enough that the pet getting 2 shot doesn't matter and can kill the mobs fast enough to be able to constantly cast Black Arrow.

It does not work for the average player. I went into Legion at 714 ilvl with the 4 piece bonus, so I'm not exactly running around in LFR gear. While stuff may die quicker as MM + Lone Wolf, the leveling process is going much smoother for someone like myself, not in Mythic Warforged gear, by doing things the old fashioned way. With a pet and managing that pet to hold aggro and take damage for me. I've been playing a Hunter for almost 8 years now, so this is not a "L2P" issue. Azortharion, I love your guides, but for something like a leveling guide, you need to take into consideration people other than just the top end players.

I went into Legion with full invasion gear, so no set bonus, no trinkets to speak of, nothing. The initial MM artifact quest was a bit rough, but after that it was smooth sailing (level 107 now, in my 3rd zone). Black Arrow is a life saver and can tank effectively anything except elites, with the added benefit of a pocket pet with no pathing issues or proximity aggro. Barrage - Sidewinders - Marked pretty much destroys packs and Exhilaration gets you up to full. The only time I died was when I accidentally pulled elites with Barrage.

I don't see how a normal pet would work better as MM. Your damage output is so high that you'll be pulling aggro off it within 1 set of abilities, so all you're left with is a dot on legs.

[Kirbypro]

New to hunter, I found the MM artifact quest a bit rough at the beginning. But after I got used to it and the other spells in the hunter's kit, its pretty easy. I just have to remember to use the slow, stun tether, and knockback shots liberally if random mobs get pulled with barrage. I also have to keep in mind that Black Arrow refreshes when a mob dies, so I can get out a lot of Black Arrow pets when pulling many mobs. Also remember to feign death in a sticky situation.

[Azortharion]

The artifact intro for Marksmanship is overtuned as fuck, those large Fel Dudes melee for ridiculous damage, doesn't have much to do with the other 99% of the leveling experience. I think people's anecdotes here almost speak for themselves (unless you believe that I told them to think and write this, lol). No other Marksmanship talent combos beat a standard Black Arrow - Barrage - Sidewinders kinda deal. Beast Mastery can be good for group leveling because it's single-target nuke on low-health targets is much better and with several people hitting stuff you don't really get to make these huge pulls that drag out for a long time as much, as people are more spread out and pulling individual mobs.

[Kelthos]

I'd say just level with the spec you are enjoying the most. If anything leveling is the time to not be super optimal if you are concerned about that sort of thing come raiding. Play what you like! For me at the moment, that is Survival. I guess I'm not a hunter. :P

[xavierjn]

I like leveling as BM, and cannot agree more with those that say to level how you want, since you really can't go wrong. If you level as BM, you should get to the first Gold tier on your Artifact close to being 110. That kind of sets you up to run dungeons as BM. Then, if you like, you can switch to MM and work on that Artifact, keeping BM on the bench for when you pop into Mythics. It's all in how you want to play

[Slicer299]

The artifact intro for Marksmanship is overtuned as fuck, those large Fel Dudes melee for ridiculous damage, doesn't have much to do with the other 99% of the leveling experience. I think people's anecdotes here almost speak for themselves (unless you believe that I told them to think and write this, lol). No other Marksmanship talent combos beat a standard Black Arrow - Barrage - Sidewinders kinda deal. Beast Mastery can be good for group leveling because it's single-target nuke on low-health targets is much better and with several people hitting stuff you don't really get to make these huge pulls that drag out for a long time as much, as people are more spread out and pulling individual mobs.

Dude, please, as a big fan of your's, dial it down a little. No one ever accused you of telling other people what to think. But the whole "do it my way, and only my way, or you're wrong" attitude turns some people away from wanting to follow your generally great advice. When it comes to things like sims, parses, and pure numbers, yes those things typically can't be debated. But leveling is as much about "what works for each person" as it is about numbers. More so really, because the more difficult or stressful leveling is, the less people want to have to do it.

A more reasonable approach to leveling guides or suggestions would be something like "Follow this MM builds for the highest possible DPS, but it will require more work on your part in terms of managing CDs to stay alive. Or, follow this BM build for the ability to pull even larger groups and tougher enemies. It will take a little longer to kill them, but it has it's benefits.".

One of those benefits I find as a Skinner is the ability to do a lot of my skinning while my pet continues to hold aggro. I can pull extra mobs specifically to skin them, kill them first, and continue to get attacks in while everything focuses my pet and I can skin stuff as it dies. Not having to kill everything first, then skin it, saves a lot of time. That will change when I can get my hands on the skinning knife that skins everything with in 40 yards, but until then running BM helps me a lot.

[Azortharion]

There is a best way to do everything, leveling included. What "works for you" or anyone else is a question you ask yourself, not the entire forum (since obviously a forum cannot tell you what "works best for you"). OP asked about the best way to level and that's what the topic is about. None of the "do what works for you" or "follow your heart" rhetoric is helping OP, therefore it doesn't belong in the thread. Discussing anything but the best way (or discussing how to find the best way) is pretty much a waste of time. If the goal is to help people (which it generally is), holding his hand and telling him to play what he feels like when he's asking for the best leveling spec is just doing him a disservice.

[Dch48]

When leveling, there is no best way unless you're one of the racers who want to get there as fast as possible and not enjoy the exploration and the numerous storylines along the way. If the OP is one of those then he should take the fastest route which is probably MM. Any spec and talent combination will get you there with no problems though. You may die a few times but so what? There is no disservice being done to anyone by saying that you should level whatever way you want to. I'm currently at 103 on the Hunter and about to switch to another toon for a bit until it gets to about the same place. Then I'll switch to the third toon and do the same thing. I want this awesome questing to last as long as possible. I'm already seeing people at 110 and thinking, "What a waste". So far, I'm thinking this may be the best xpac ever and I'm glad I didn't get into the beta.

Another thing, As BM, your pet's growl does not only work on one mob. Many times I will set mine on a target, shoot another mob one time to bring it closer and the pet's growl will pick that mob up too. My pets hold multiple mobs in place very well. I haven't even used any kind of CC yet.

[Azortharion]

"Go BM early, until "so and so" "choose this artifact chain". Switch to MM at this point, until so and so". I don't want reasoning, Just "this is the cookie cutter way to go for best overall performance"

He doesn't give a damn about your storyline exploration. Can't you tell?

[scorpor]

God, more and more people are being really retarded in this forum, where have you all been before? Just lurking and now suddenly finding the confidence to give your stupid opinions to every little thing?
OP asked how to level and he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the storyline, you would know if you even cared to read his first post. Leveling isn't rocket science and surely not difficult at all, it's not Dark Souls ffs. Noone would open such a thread and want answers like "play what you feel like" because that wouldn't make any sense in the first place.
OP even thanked Azor for his input and his initial question is resolved , the thread is done. Stop discussing it now. If you want to level TIME EFFICIENTLY, do as Azor says because it's good advice. If you want to enjoy the quests and storylines, do whatever the fuck you want to do because this thread clearly wasn't meant for you.

[MabusGaming]

I went BM for leveling simply because I lacked 4pc instant aimed shots. Got server first 110 too, so it went well with beastcleaving and cobra shotting.