Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[Polarthief]

BTW what is DGW?

Dreamgrove Wardens, the new troop option in 7.2 that can also counter an ability.

PS: Dam no max lvl mage didnt expect that Polarthief :P

I haven't really bothered with my Mage since 7.0. I was just so tired of playing DPS only. It's funny because I started this expansion as Resto, and am now back to Balance, but at least I can go back to Guardian and Resto whenever I want *shrug*.

[Thelxi]

How are Brightwing and Mylune stronger than Zen'tabra and Naralex (who do basically the same as Hamuul who is considered strong by you)?

Strong and weak is all relative because clearly we all care about different things and mind things that others don't. The reason I like BW and Mylune more than champions like Naralex and Zentabra is their potentially useful utility opposed to a mere 15% bonus. 15% loses it's value quickly while Mylune's skill for example can only gain value the more gear you get.

My final comp is:

1. Thisalee (Full-time BG)
2. Meatball
3. Sylendra

4. Remulos
5. Mylune
6. Brightwing
7. Hamuul

8. Feral Ancient

This gives me 2/2/2 spread, including the ancient which I will easily keep alive with shrooms. It also gives me 2/2/1 counters with Hazard being the 1, which is ok because Hazard is the rarest threat by far.

Thisalee can help in emergencies being both feral and a hazard counter allowing a perfect 2/2/2 & 2/2/2 spread.

I like this comp because it is very low maintenance (just keep the ancient alive and be mindful of lethal missions with him), has a good spread of counters and includes all the champions with utility. Even Mylune who I know I will regret not including even though she will always be a weaker version of Remulos, I would much rather invest in her than someone like Broll.

[Polarthief]

15% loses it's value quickly while Mylune's skill for example can only gain value the more gear you get.

Please explain how Mylune is even remotely redeemable over Zen'tabra/Naralex/Hamuul. Brightwing I could understand as niche utility, Mylune I really can't. T1 troops are just awful.

Using Mylune as a non-CA champion is just sub-optimal (as is using Brightwing).

[Thelxi]

Please explain how Mylune is even remotely redeemable over Zen'tabra/Naralex/Hamuul. Brightwing I could understand as niche utility, Mylune I really can't. T1 troops are just awful.

Using Mylune as a non-CA champion is just sub-optimal (as is using Brightwing).

First of all you are exaggerating both the regular champs usefulness and Mylune's uselessness. All champions have 1 spec, 1 counter and 1 ability; Mylune is no different and chances are 2/3s of her kit complement many people's compositions (such as my own) very well. Ultimately the most important thing is a balanced spread of specs and counters.

I completely agree with you, as would most, that our t1 troops are terrible. No argument there.

Ok, so what I can do is first explain to you why I prefer Mylune over the regular champs.

To me extreme efficiency is not the only priority. I also value quality of life. For example I don't want to be babysitting every single mission, double checking for lethals and troop vitality, because god forbid a warden dies upon whom my entire counter balance was hinging. I also don't want my addons to be cluttered with warden comps that I don't want to send out.

What it comes down to is that I want to spam as many missions as possible with as little effort as possible, while also being able to focus all my resources in order to do the most challenging missions, efficiently. The reason I want to do as many missions as possible is both fun and chances at good gear.

Now that that is out of the way: Mylune. Her ability is far from efficient and effective. However, she is usually the last champion on the list I send out every day, and with enough synergy gear she is able to solo/duo missions while also utilizing troops that people without her almost never do. Her kit being robust against awkward counters helps her fill the role of doing short duration, easy but awkward missions that otherwise would be overkill to do with others. (as many missions as possible..)

Keep in mind, even bad comps will be able to do the hardest of missions with enough gear and a bit of luck. They might not be able to squeeze out an extra elite mission every week, but you have to weigh that against quality of life as well. At least I do.

[Polarthief]

To me extreme efficiency is not the only priority. I also value quality of life. For example I don't want to be babysitting every single mission, double checking for lethals and troop vitality, because god forbid a warden dies upon whom my entire counter balance was hinging. I also don't want my addons to be cluttered with warden comps that I don't want to send out.

I actually rarely use my AoW/DGW. I only use them when I absolutely have to for either 200%ing a mission (using an ability counter with someone that's unavailable atm) or countering a Cursed or Slowing.

What it comes down to is that I want to spam as many missions as possible with as little effort as possible, while also being able to focus all my resources in order to do the most challenging missions, efficiently. The reason I want to do as many missions as possible is both fun and chances at good gear.

One would argue that the hardest missions are Elite Strikes (200% base just to get the reward) or the Raid Missions (225% to get the Bonus Roll coin), both of which I have no problems getting even without DGW/AoW.



This is my second batch of missions and it would not be possible without having optimized troops.

Now that that is out of the way: Mylune. Her ability is far from efficient and effective. However, she is usually the last champion on the list I send out every day, and with enough synergy gear she is able to solo/duo missions while also utilizing troops that people without her almost never do. Her kit being robust against awkward counters helps her fill the role of doing short duration, easy but awkward missions that otherwise would be overkill to do with others. (as many missions as possible..)

While I get that, I feel like this is all just an argument for "why you use Thisalee as a CA". If you like Thisalee, great, use her! Just don't peddle that using her as a CA and using Mylune as a mission champion is optimized or even close to it. Thisalee especially is a stupidly good champion who is capable of going solo with 2 troops and getting 160% on any 0% base success mission, assuming it doesn't have Cursed Minions or Cursed Spells. That is batshit insane. Moroes is also the same but doesn't even require an AoW. One keeper and Moroes and that's 160%. Add 2 energy balls and, oh look, anything without cursed and Moroes+Keeper 200%s the mission (again, assuming 0% base). Mylune simply can't do that, and while you may think 15% isn't much, it really is and also shapes how you gear a follower.

Another example would be legendary items. Hamuul is a perfect choice for the Harpy Feather as now his bonus is doubled. 30% is quite large, but putting a Harpy Feather on anyone else would only be a 15% bonus, which, as you put it, is an "overexaggeration". I have failed 99%/failed the bonus on 199% missions in the past, and I can tell you, every 1% matters, especially on something that is important to me (extra gold, bonus rolls, follower gear caches because I still need more legendaries, etc).

Keep in mind, even bad comps will be able to do the hardest of missions with enough gear and a bit of luck. They might not be able to squeeze out an extra elite mission every week, but you have to weigh that against quality of life as well. At least I do.

I still don't see it. I could just as easily stick other followers (or even my Mylune CA) on these easy missions and get the same result while also having an optimized team.

Again, I'm not here to force you to use optimized troops because that would be insanity. I'm just here to help optimize people around their own builds. Hell, I was asked today on Discord to make a Remulos CA build (which has been added to the spreadsheet as well as a Moroes-less build). You want to use Thisalee as a CA? Go right ahead, and there's a build on the spreadsheet. You can use whatever you want, but using any of the main followers (MB, Moroes, Remulos, and Thisalee) as a CA is sub-optimal.

[Thelxi]

I can't break down all the quotes but I read your post and I think you understand what I was trying to say to you. A few things:

Using any of those as bodyguards is "suboptimal" only for mission spam. For example, using any bodyguard other than Thisalee is suboptimal for nethershard farming. People have different priorities, needs and preferences. Many people don't even do any missions ever.

Also, don't say I am trying to peddle anything here it is a bit ironic.

I went back a few pages and looked at the spreadsheet you talked about, and your recommended Thisalee without Moroes comp has 3 spell counters, 2 minion counters plus wardens to fill in the gaps. I would never want that. It's a greatly optimized comp for people willing to babysit the wardens and that don't mind relying on Thisalee to part-time help out with missions, but I don't want any of those things. Thus, I am limiting how optimized I can be, but that does not mean I cannot optimize within these limitations. Nor does it mean I cannot do the hardest missions, or spam missions.

I am not looking to change your opinion on what is optimal. This is not nuclear physics; it is pretty basic logic and math, we can all see what % is best. I know I am not as optimal percentage-wise as your recommended Thisalee build, but I also know that I don't have to babysit any wardens and I can have Thisalee giving me 10% haste at all times without missing a hazard counter. Different builds for different needs.

-Please don't take my comments on your build as an insult and start an argument over it. I think your spreadsheet is fantastic information that will help a lot of people, I am just trying to let you know that people have different needs and preferences, and using different builds to satisfy different needs does not invalidate your own ultra-efficient builds. Keep an open mind.

[Polarthief]

My apologies if I came off like that, it happens sometimes though it's not exactly my intention. At this point though, we're just agreeing in different ways. Like you said, if you want to do world quests and Nethershard farming, of course Thisalee (or even Remulos over Mylune) is going to be more valuable. I was just always under the assumption people wanted maximum mission success optimization, especially regarding the missions you have to 200%+ (again, that's around 225% for Raid missions IIRC). Granted, if you have Meatball and Moroes, you can easily 200% any mission (those two alone with anyone who can counter Cursed will 200% anything).

[davidrm15]

So if dont have Meatball and Moroes, still use excel in first page or have any change importante for decide? And if i dont like CA , wardens of the grove is better talent ??

[Tiberria]

The thing with Mylune is that while she may not look great on paper on a direct comparison with other champions based on 1 vs 1 math, the reality is, having a champion built around T1 troops has practical value in terms of maximizing mission completion/efficiency. You can easily have 4, sometimes 5 missions going at a time. You're only going to have 3 T2 troops, with them available for a max of 3 missions at a time (less if you double them up on 1 mission). That will leave your 4th/5th mission without T2 troops, making having +T2 troop success gear on every champion fairly useless (even if it looks good on paper in a vacuum). Gearing your end of roster champion for T1 troops and using them as a filler for that 4th/5th mission lets you make some reasonable use out of the 4 T1 troops you have available, and is going to give you more +success chance on those 4th and 5th missions than gearing for universal success chance or T2 troops would.

[Polarthief]

So if dont have Meatball and Moroes, still use excel in first page or have any change importante for decide? And if i dont like CA , wardens of the grove is better talent ??

If you don't have Meatball, get Meatball. If you don't have Moroes, ask yourself if it's worth the RNG/trouble of getting him. Use the second tab (once you get Meatball because there's 0 RNG involved with him) and use the Non-Moroes builds on the right side of the tab (all Non-Moroes rosters will always be on the right side).

Even if you don't like using a CA, get the 2 Wardens you want, then switch to 7th Champion slot. Keep Wardens alive on Sylendra's Wild Mushrooms.

The thing with Mylune is that while she may not look great on paper on a direct comparison with other champions based on 1 vs 1 math, the reality is, having a champion built around T1 troops has practical value in terms of maximizing mission completion/efficiency. You can easily have 4, sometimes 5 missions going at a time. You're only going to have 3 T2 troops, with them available for a max of 3 missions at a time (less if you double them up on 1 mission). That will leave your 4th/5th mission without T2 troops, making having +T2 troop success gear on every champion fairly useless (even if it looks good on paper in a vacuum). Gearing your end of roster champion for T1 troops and using them as a filler for that 4th/5th mission lets you make some reasonable use out of the 4 T1 troops you have available, and is going to give you more +success chance on those 4th and 5th missions than gearing for universal success chance or T2 troops would.

I get that, but it also depends on who can counter what. Hell there are some missions I can just put 1, maybe 2 champions on and send them off.

[Jaeru]

Hello Guys, To much info here. I want to improve my champions, right know I have a mess but there is to much info here to follow. Is there a TLDR version of all the discusion around here?

Dont hate me for being lazy

[Mooncode]

Hello Guys, To much info here. I want to improve my champions, right know I have a mess but there is to much info here to follow. Is there a TLDR version of all the discusion around here?

Dont hate me for being lazy

TL;DR:

Made this, as an update to the old one on page 1.
This is your best optimal mission setup squad.

imgur.com/a/oyIBh


Gear:

Mylune/Naralax – Shard + Pouch + Ward (Yes these are all Legendaries – until all are obtained, I will use epics / rares, that rewards Gold>Order Resources)

Meatball - Saddle + Carrot + Fetish (Legendary: Imp Tooth or Brooch/Demon in box) (for quick generation of "balls")
Sylendra - Saddle + Carrot + Fetish (Legendary: Imp Tooth or Brooch/Demon in box) (for quick generation of shrooms)
Moroes - Ember + Fetish + Doodad (Saddle maybe instead of Doodad)
Hamuul - Ember + Fetish + Doodad (Saddle maybe instead of Doodad)
Thisalee - Ember + Token + Fetish (To triple dip on her trait with vitality of troops (T2))
Remulos - Ember + Token + Fetish (To triple dip on his own trait with T2 troops)

If you dont plan on getting moroes - I would grab Naralax, and run him with same gear setup as Moroes.

- - - Updated - - -

And then
Ancient of War - Resto
Dreamgrove Wardens: Dash + Starfall

[Polarthief]

Moroes - Ember + Fetish + Doodad (Saddle maybe instead of Doodad)
Hamuul - Ember + Fetish + Doodad (Saddle maybe instead of Doodad)

Don't Saddle Moroes/Hamuul (especially when they're fucking rare enough, rip me). The other option would be to replace Doodad with Token if you want a more T2-oriented build over raw success.

And then
Ancient of War - Resto
Dreamgrove Wardens: Dash + Starfall

You keep ^ alive with Sylendra's Wild Mushrooms so you can save 4000 resources a week and get a 7th champion slot as well (you can keep the AOW/DGW without even having the advancement option to recruit them!)

Should you want more info or builds or whatever, my spreadsheet should suffice. Let me know if you'd like me to make you a build not currently on the list!

[clavarnway]

Woot, Ward of Infinite Fury from Reclamation. Paired with my potion and elixir...Mylune is a very happy CA!

[Myztikrice]

How are you getting so many wild mushrooms?

[Polarthief]

Woot, Ward of Infinite Fury from Reclamation. Paired with my potion and elixir...Mylune is a very happy CA!

You can get legendaries from that? Fuck, I might swap back to Reclamation then... (ONCE I GET MY FUCKING AoW BACK THAT IS)

How are you getting so many wild mushrooms?

20% reduction from Travel Form, another 25% from Sylendra having Saddle+Carrot (30% for me because her third item is Demon in a Box, which is a Fetish + 5% Reduction). I also use DGW/AoW only when I absolutely need them, and I NEVER put them on Elite Strikes (until there's a confirmed bugfix on the 'hidden issues'), just in case.

It's also best to spam her with Meatball and 1 other champ on super-quick missions (< 6h) when you have no important ones to send out. Overall, she's just RNG if she brings back a Shroom or not, and it's based on how many missions you can complete with her.

[clavarnway]

Reclamation doesn't compete with AoW, why in the world don't you have Reclamation? :-p.

[Polarthief]

Reclamation doesn't compete with AoW, why in the world don't you have Reclamation? :-p.

Because I lost my AoW (to BULLSHIT BUGS I might add), I am currently researching my AoW back (and might opt to just keep that option on). As a result, I cannot also swap to Reclamation while also swapping to AoW.

17h left til I can spend 12h more getting AoW back and praying it's a Resto.

[Tiberria]

Reclamation doesn't compete with AoW, why in the world don't you have Reclamation? :-p.

Reclamation prevents you from having +1 extra T2 troop, which actively interferes with your ability to run more missions more efficiently. I think that you're probably better off just running every equipment mission at 200% success to get more crates to open and sticking with your 3 L2 troops.

[Polarthief]

Reclamation prevents you from having +1 extra T2 troop, which actively interferes with your ability to run more missions more efficiently.

I know that, but there are times where I'm not using all 3, and having an extra influx of equips might yield me another Saddle soon (which I still need).

Granted, they're on par with Work Orders, which is the same as crates (not chests), so... hmmm...