Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[Polarthief]

I really like this setup of champions because you avoid all the useless ones

Mylune as a mission champion and Brightwing are quite useless. Mylune's bonus is essentially nothing and Brightwing's IS nothing. You don't rely on it for AoW/DGWs (why would you?) and the gain you get from it when it does proc is minimal. If anything, it's best paired with one of Moroes's Dinner Guests, but you get those enough and use them so sparingly that it shouldn't really matter.

With 7.2 that is no longer the case. Of all the new 850+ missions, the class boss counter needed is random. Which is why most people suggest having a 2/2/2 split at a minimum.

Except there's still older missions and overall Feral is slightly more common and Resto is slightly less common. Also, see my next point below.

And, it's impossible to get a 2/2/2 split if you want to use a combat ally and use Meatball and Moroes. I think that makes it questionable whether the Moroes grind is worth it.

Except both Meatball and Moroes can easily 100% any mission by themselves, and as I pointed out a page ago, excluding needing required counters (Cursed basically), Moroes can 155% ANY 0% base success mission with just himself and a Keeper if Minions are on it. That's batshit insane to not counter a single thing and still get 155% AND have an extra slot leftover! Of course Meatball could do 180% with a Keeper if you build him for T2 troops, but I like him having high Reduction.

Overall, the specialization split isn't nearly as vital as having all the ability counters covered, which is why you want to balance those heavily and use DGWs to fill the gaps.

[Tiberria]

Mylune's bonus is not "essentially nothing". i don't see anything wrong with having one active champion with a native Treants buff that you can then gear exclusively toward +Treant success equipment. That gives you a decent use for treants and lets you focus on pairing up T2 troops with other champions.

Also, if you want to level a champion to Titled quickly, and the champion can be a bodyguard, it is massively faster to just level it as a bodyguard than it is to try and ram it through missions. They buffed quest EXP to 1000 exp per quest or world quest. You can easily level one from epic to titled in 2-3 days - faster if you still have leveling quests up that you can clear out.

[Thelxi]

I wouldn't call Mylune and BW useless, they are just easier to sacrifice for a better counter balance than other champions. In an ideal world I'd want to use Mylune, it's just that counters don't allow her on my roster. BW I would also like to have on my roster, but again counters are more important than a bit of utility.

[Whitebull]

I don't think this will necessarily change things, but I think it will definitely encourage more people to have wardens around.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ters_you_dont/

[Tiberria]

Mylune is weak if you don't use Thisalee as a combat ally and/or don't have a Dash Warden available. In either of those situations, she is needed as the only available Dash. If you're going to use Thisalee for missions, she's not really needed.

[Lyvar]

- triple post -

[Lyvar]

- triple post -

[Lyvar]

I really like this setup of champions because you avoid all the useless ones and include all the useful ones but it does all hinge on using a feral ancient. Feral missions are the most common mission type so I'm not sure how this would work out.

How are Brightwing and Mylune stronger than Zen'tabra and Naralex (who do basically the same as Hamuul who is considered strong by you)?

And, it's impossible to get a 2/2/2 split if you want to use a combat ally and use Meatball and Moroes.

Thisalee/Hamuul
Remulos/Naralex (combat ally and occasional counter)
Sylendra/Ancient

Mylune's bonus is not "essentially nothing". i don't see anything wrong with having one active champion with a native Treants buff that you can then gear exclusively toward +Treant success equipment. That gives you a decent use for treants and lets you focus on pairing up T2 troops with other champions.

That may work if you play without a bodyguard - I would not see who to leave out otherwise and Mylune as a bodyguard has no equip optimized for Treants. Still, I see stronger options.

[Mooncode]

Mylune's bonus is not "essentially nothing". i don't see anything wrong with having one active champion with a native Treants buff that you can then gear exclusively toward +Treant success equipment. That gives you a decent use for treants and lets you focus on pairing up T2 troops with other champions.

I dont get why this is even considered. Lets just compare the 2.

Treants/Sisters:
-2 Vitality
-15% success chance (+5% success chance with Order Hall trait - Sisters)
-Bonus from Gear: 20%(epic) 10%(uncommon)
-3 Troops available (4 with Order Hall trait)

Champion interaction:
Mylune: 15% success when on mission with this troop
Thisalee: 5-10% success when on mission with this troop

Druid of the Claw/Keeper of the Grove
-3 Vitality
-30% Success chance (15% Success vs Minions with Order Hall trait - Keepers)
-Bonus from Gear: 20%(epic) 15%(rare)
-2 Troops available (3 with Order Hall trait)

Champion interaction:
Remulos: 15% success when on mission with this troop
Thisalee: 5-15% success when on mission with this troop


So to conclude on all this....the +5% you get from the trait, is cooked into Thisalee through the Vitality buff, and its also cooked into the interaction with Gear, since there is no 15% gear for Treants/Sisters. 3 Keepers - 1 AoW - 2 Wardens... You will have enough Troops that are far superior to Treant, for it to even make sence to try building around Treants at all.

Mylune is therefor not even worth using as a Mission champion... and arguably replaceable with Naralax for CA/BG (that 1 is up to preference).

Mylune is weak if you don't use Thisalee as a combat ally and/or don't have a Dash Warden available. In either of those situations, she is needed as the only available Dash. If you're going to use Thisalee for missions, she's not really needed.

I'm still dazzeled how people consider Thisalee the better option as a CA/BG ... when she clearly cashes in more success chance on mission compared to alot of other champions.
Sure, its up to the individual player how they want to put together their setup. But in an mission optimized setup, Thisalee is not to be considered a CA/BG..... Rather use Naralax/Mylune/Broll .... But who are we kidding.... Broll is carbage, so either Naralax or Mylune

[Polarthief]

Mylune's bonus is not "essentially nothing". i don't see anything wrong with having one active champion with a native Treants buff that you can then gear exclusively toward +Treant success equipment. That gives you a decent use for treants and lets you focus on pairing up T2 troops with other champions.

Because maximum potential bonus out of treants is Base (15%) + Mylune (+15%) + Scroll of Growth (20%) = 50%. That's pathetically weak. You could also add a 10% token, but that's only if you have nothing better (like a Doodad even) because there is no blue version for T1 troops.

Compared to what you could get, yes, that is essentially nothing.

Also, if you want to level a champion to Titled quickly, and the champion can be a bodyguard, it is massively faster to just level it as a bodyguard than it is to try and ram it through missions. They buffed quest EXP to 1000 exp per quest or world quest. You can easily level one from epic to titled in 2-3 days - faster if you still have leveling quests up that you can clear out.

Definitely true; even faster if you combine the two. Long missions overnight, WQs when available, short missions everywhere in-between. Also, I'm pretty sure missions give a base 3k experience for completing them, another 3k for getting the bonus (I keep getting 6k on Thisalee/Moroes, so I ASSUME it's the bonus 200%), and 10k for the Elite Strike Command Center missions.

I don't think this will necessarily change things, but I think it will definitely encourage more people to have wardens around.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ters_you_dont/

I've actually had this issue arise very uncommonly a few times before, and yes, it's incredibly annoying.

PS: If you use the app, it shows the double-ability as being countered, but this is a visual bug.

So to conclude on all this....the +5% you get from the trait, is cooked into Thisalee through the Vitality buff, and its also cooked into the interaction with Gear, since there is no 15% gear for Treants/Sisters. 3 Keepers - 1 AoW - 2 Wardens... You will have enough Troops that are far superior to Treant, for it to even make sence to try building around Treants at all.

Mylune is therefor not even worth using as a Mission champion... and arguably replaceable with Naralax for CA/BG (that 1 is up to preference).

Naralex (as a CA) is useless outside of PvP, sadly. Mylune at least gives you critter companions and sometimes Faerie Dragons that do some minor damage. That said, for missions he's better than Mylune.

I'm still dazzeled how people consider Thisalee the better option as a CA/BG ... when she clearly cashes in more success chance on mission compared to alot of other champions.
Sure, its up to the individual player how they want to put together their setup. But in an mission optimized setup, Thisalee is not to be considered a CA/BG..... Rather use Naralax/Mylune/Broll .... But who are we kidding.... Broll is carbage, so either Naralax or Mylune

People want to maximize their miniscule damage bonuses for WQs. I won't ever understand it because even when I played WoW casually I didn't need the extra help but if people want it, more power to them.

They also consider the 10% extra flight speed, though that's barely even a factor and just makes you turn off the game sooner which defeats the whole purpose of playing a god damn video game in the first place.

I've given everyone the optimized guide and optimized general gearing for missions (even giving alternatives). I don't know how much more I can optimize short of swapping gear specifically for missions.

- - - Updated - - -

Also as a bonus regarding Command Center Missions, now that they give us 3 right away, if you're having problems 100%ing them because you're low on gear, just stick all the >8h gear you can on them. One Titled follower with maximized 8h+ gear gives 90% from their gear alone (40% for purple, 30% for blue, 20% for green). The >8h and <4h gear is by far the most bonus giving gear you can find, though the <4h stuff is near worthless since all the hard missions are usually 6+ hours or so. The main reason you don't gear specifically for >8h is because there's still a ton of challenging <8h missions. Also Travel Form, which reduces the overall effectiveness of the gear (and no, it doesn't make the <4h stuff worth it)

You can also throw a saddle on them over the green Hiking Boots for a 70% bonus but a nice 15% reduction to that whopping 3 day base duration (can go up to 12 days with 2x Slowing).

[Mooncode]

Naralex (as a CA) is useless outside of PvP, sadly. Mylune at least gives you critter companions and sometimes Faerie Dragons that do some minor damage. That said, for missions he's better than Mylune.

How is he useless outside of PVP... I use him quiet alot to kill of elites in both WQ and on Broken Shore, if I come across them.

People want to maximize their miniscule damage bonuses for WQs. I won't ever understand it because even when I played WoW casually I didn't need the extra help but if people want it, more power to them.

They also consider the 10% extra flight speed, though that's barely even a factor and just makes you turn off the game sooner which defeats the whole purpose of playing a god damn video game in the first place.

Sure I can see Thisalee giving me 10% more haste as Balance druid being nice... But I'd rather have a 10sec stun +50% damage taken debuff on a tough mob, so I can finish that one off faster.

And srsly, who benefits from 10% more flying speed.... so my Flight speed goes from 420 to 430% .... Might aswell equip Carrot on a stick (Zul'farrak Quest Trinket) when ever I switch into flight form then......

I've given everyone the optimized guide and optimized general gearing for missions (even giving alternatives). I don't know how much more I can optimize short of swapping gear specifically for missions

Yeah, basicly the same though process I made on optimizing champions, and their gear... (except im using Naralax over Mylune - which is imo just a preference of the CA ability).... So I can back this a 100%.. If people want to optimizie for both champions, and the gearing....then they should follow that setup, with generally that gearing aswell.

Untill some new Champions shows up in 7.2.5 or 7.3, and have us scramble the whole damn thing again :P

[Lyvar]

Sure I can see Thisalee giving me 10% more haste as Balance druid being nice... But I'd rather have a 10sec stun +50% damage taken debuff on a tough mob, so I can finish that one off faster.

Polarthief mentioned some posts above that most mobs he would like to stun are immune to stun.

Untill some new Champions shows up in 7.2.5 or 7.3, and have us scramble the whole damn thing again :P

Waiting for a Resto/Dash option...

[Mooncode]

Polarthief mentioned some posts above that most mobs he would like to stun are immune to stun.

Yeah some are immune... True, I guess Mylune has better use then. But yeah, Pouch of Wonders is on Naralax now... and I find Naralax better to do some missions, when im not doing WQ with him.

[Lyvar]

Yeah some are immune... True, I guess Mylune has better use then. But yeah, Pouch of Wonders is on Naralax now... and I find Naralax better to do some missions, when im not doing WQ with him.

If there is a tiny chance those Fairy Dragons keep me infight when SMing I'll use any CA that does not. I would not use Naralex for his stun but for his Gold/OR/AM generation. Plus (as you pointed out) he is stronger than Mylune if you take him off duty for help with missions.

[Kluian05]

You mean the same mission can randomly roll to need resto / feral / balance? For example today I got like 4 missions for balance which was a bit weird. Are they completely RNG then?

Yes the new 7.2 missions are random for the class counter.

[Whitebull]

Thisalee > Remulos in that she also gets 15% from a full health keeper by default, but hers stacks.

Mylune's ability is basically useless to me as her followers, even upgraded, don't seem to offer as much as the others. I'd like to rotate her out, but I need her pretty often at the moment.

I don't want to use brightwing, even have a resto ancient, but I'm kinda forced to use him when I gets tacks of resto or starfall counters.

At the end of the day I don't think I can currently just stick with a static 7, I'm gearing most of my crew (except Broll really).

[Marrilaife]

If there is a tiny chance those Fairy Dragons keep me infight when SMing I'll use any CA that does not.

Yes, happened to me with both Broll and Mylune that Shadowmeld combat drop failed because of CA.

Polarthief mentioned some posts above that most mobs he would like to stun are immune to stun.

From my experience few months ago when I tested the CA most rare elites like for warden quests were immune, and for small mobs who cares they die fast. That's why I was wondering if it ever got changed.

For example I have matron on DH, she does little dps but at least does something, while Naralex would often fizzle and do nothing. Remulos has some pathing issues (can fizzle in small, cramped spaces or on weird elevations), but does a lot of dmg and healing, problem is, he's best balance option for missions...

[Polarthief]

How is he useless outside of PVP... I use him quiet alot to kill of elites in both WQ and on Broken Shore, if I come across them.

Sure I can see Thisalee giving me 10% more haste as Balance druid being nice... But I'd rather have a 10sec stun +50% damage taken debuff on a tough mob, so I can finish that one off faster.

It's a 3m cooldown that almost anything you'd want it for (anything with more than 20M health) is immune to.

That said, Mylune is BARELY better, and doesn't have PvP protection. If you use Naralex over her, it really doesn't matter since it doesn't change your AoW nor your DGWs. Naralex is also arguably ever-so-slightly better for missions if you do use him for missions overnight.

Waiting for a Resto/Dash option...

Or anything with Starfall that isn't meh (Hamuul/Naralex) or useless (Brightwing).

Yeah some are immune... True, I guess Mylune has better use then. But yeah, Pouch of Wonders is on Naralax now... and I find Naralax better to do some missions, when im not doing WQ with him.

If you put the pouch on Naralex, he's your CA. Don't ever swap. The bonuses you get from Mylune are not worth it, so don't worry

If there is a tiny chance those Fairy Dragons keep me infight when SMing I'll use any CA that does not.

I actually haven't had this issue yet, though I feel like anyone who doesn't have flight yet might have a problem. The dragons only last like 10s anyways.

Thisalee > Remulos in that she also gets 15% from a full health keeper by default, but hers stacks.

Hers also relies on you having a full health keeper. Remulos is slightly better due to that regard if you're only using 1 troop (likely). If you're using 2 (AoW or DGW perhaps?) Thisalee definitely wins out. Honestly, she and Remulos are extremely close, Thisalee just has a wider gap between her floor and ceiling.

Mylune's ability is basically useless to me as her followers, even upgraded, don't seem to offer as much as the others. I'd like to rotate her out, but I need her pretty often at the moment.

I don't want to use brightwing, even have a resto ancient, but I'm kinda forced to use him when I gets tacks of resto or starfall counters.

At the end of the day I don't think I can currently just stick with a static 7, I'm gearing most of my crew (except Broll really).[/QUOTE]

Which isn't a bad idea if you're like me and have tons of epics. I'm still waiting on a few though (Saddles mostly)

From my experience few months ago when I tested the CA most rare elites like for warden quests were immune, and for small mobs who cares they die fast. That's why I was wondering if it ever got changed.

I'm almost positive they weren't back in like 7.1 or 7.1.5; whenever I started to megafarm resources because early 7.2 PTR announced the whole 50k resources needed for T7/T8 order advancement and I was around 10k or so. Wanted to get as many resources for that and missions as possible, and I used him aplenty, and almost nothing was immune to it. Now, everything is. I assume it's to prevent most players from soloing rare mobs? Idk.

- - - Updated - - -

Also here's a bonus for using Mylune.
They try so hard to keep up with my flight

[Marrilaife]

I assume it's to prevent most players from soloing rare mobs?

For that we have guardian spec. It's just sloppy coding imho, if mob is stun immune they should let us at least apply the increased damage debuff instead of rendering the CA useless.

Also here's a bonus for using Mylune.

Well if you count that as a "bonus", I wasn't very much thrilled to be constantly swarmed by a herd of chicken, bunnies and squirrels. At start I was wondering what the heck are all these critters then I realized it's the visual of Mylune being your follower.

[Polarthief]

For that we have guardian spec. It's just sloppy coding imho, if mob is stun immune they should let us at least apply the increased damage debuff instead of rendering the CA useless.

Oh I agree, but what do you expect from New Blizzard with their leader Ion "Doesn't Play His Own Vision" Hazzikostas?

Also some rare mobs will also tear through you, even as Guardian.

Well if you count that as a "bonus", I wasn't very much thrilled to be constantly swarmed by a herd of chicken, bunnies and squirrels. At start I was wondering what the heck are all these critters then I realized it's the visual of Mylune being your follower.

It's more just for the lulz. It's pretty funny to have an army of critters following you.