watched the greymane vs sylvannas cinematic 1 thing confuses me

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't think the Forsaken have any kind of superior olfactory sense - their senses are actually dulled by the state of undeath: colors muted and palette stifled. It makes sense that Sylvanas was unlikely to smell him even in Worgen form. Barring that Genn was also up in the rafters of the structure she and Eyir were inside, it wouldn't be easy to smell him especially when you've got your attention and will focused on subduing a vengeful Titan servitor creature.

I'm not quite sure how this factors greatly into the debate.

There is the whole hungering for flesh "the living are here" of the undead it falls back to a conversation where Trippz said the Forsaken wouldn't be able to tell a living being sneaking around in Undercity.

[Theodarzna]

Thinking that every character has to forgive the Horde whenever it wrongs them is what I find crazy. You expect Alliance characters to be subscribed to forgiveness. There is only so much a character is can or is willing to endure and forgive.

No Horde character has ever done so much for peace between the Alliance and the Horde as Jaina did. Jaina did more than any other character ever did on bringing these two together. She invested everything into peace and in return lost everything. She was betrayed by such the ideal of peace which she pursued no matter what. Genn was betrayed by the ideal of neutrality aswell; Gilneas was walled off because they wanted to have nothing to do with the conflicts beyond their kingdom. He too was betrayed by a benevolent ideal.

Two of the most benevolent and neutral characters were done this much harm, despite pursuing peace and neutrality for the better part of their lives. You need to understand this and if you really do understand it, you will know why their characters' transformation is only logical. They tried being benevolent, they tried leaving others be, they tried helping others/staying away from them and in return got nothing but tragedy upon tragedy as a result of it.

Considering the Horde races show an absolute ignorance of the concept of contrition, apology, or making things right, I am unsure why Horde Fanboys are expecting the Alliance to be this benevolent forgiving force.

The Horde as written seems to be filled with people to socially inept to understand how an apology or act of contrition is done. Orc's are painfully ignorant of their own History and I guess Forsaken are borderline completely unaware of their own existence or that most of them were once Human.

[Raetary]

So excited for siege of undercity, can't wait to put that bitch down.

Hopefully the angsty teens who masturbate to her quit as well

And the award to the most ignorant post goes to...

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[Mehrunes]

Considering the Horde races show an absolute ignorance of the concept of contrition, apology, or making things right, I am unsure why Horde Fanboys are expecting the Alliance to be this benevolent forgiving force.

The Horde as written seems to be filled with people to socially inept to understand how an apology or act of contrition is done. Orc's are painfully ignorant of their own History and I guess Forsaken are borderline completely unaware of their own existence or that most of them were once Human.

Thrall settled Orcs in a desert as atonement for Old Horde's actions. Here's your contrition. And Forsaken are aware of being humans just fine, what of it? Also, considering that all major conflicts in WoW (either over nonsense or simply nothing) and most of the minor ones were started by the Alliance, you're aiming this at the wrong faction.

[Surfd]

What your post entirely misses out on, which is the main reason why these two characters are as angry as they are, is the fact that innocents paid with their lives/suffered due to several Horde leaders, be it Garrosh or Sylvanas.

If destroying Theramore in the way it was destroyed was "militarily brilliant", then I assume you also believe that it would've been a military marvel had Jaina annihilated all of Orgrimmar, yes? If you feel this way and can confirm this, then I can understand that you have an opinion which equally spreads across the board.

Sorry for the late reply (shipped off to visit family over the weekend).

First off, if we want to play the blame game, then does that mean that the Blood Elves have a right to declare vendetta against the collective alliance forces of the Eastern Kingdoms because they A: effectively abandoned them in the face of the scourge, resulting in the near destruction of their homeland, and B: were "effectively" responsible for the near total destruction of most of their military forces, as Garithos was still considered an "Alliance" military command figure when he attempted to first use them as cannon fodder, and then tried to have them imprisoned and executed?

Hell, if Genn is justified in hating Sylvanas for the death of his son purely due to cause and effect, rather then intent, then Sylvanas should be equally justified in hating every member of the alliance on the eastern kingdoms, since they are pretty much directly responsible for the fact that she eventually had her soul ripped out of her body by an alliance hero turned psycho murderous cult champion. If the alliance had just fought the scourge instead of abandoning Lordaeron to its fate, none of this would have happened.

Second, I hate to point this out to you, but argueably the only innocent who died in Theramore bombing was Rhonin. Everyone in the city when the bomb was dropped was a combatant, and was there almost expressly because Jaina had requested their assistance in defending her city. And it wasn't like Garrosh just threw the bomb at them with absolutely no warning or anything. He pretty much announced his intentions well in advance to anyone who would listen, and actually seiged the city for an extended period of time, sacrificing a fair number of Tauren and Trolls in what the other horde leaders were unaware was pretty much a diversionary action to ensure that there would be maximum effect against the alliance military when he finally unleashed his secret weapon on Theramore.

The conclusion and what happened is that Jaina didn't do to Orgrimmar what the Horde did to Theramore, even though she had the opportunity and even though thousands upon thousands were killed not long before that. It is also a fact that it was the Horde that was the first one to kill an extremely large number of civilians yet again, while she decided not to give a proportionate answer in return.

There is so much flat out wrong here it boggles my mind. Jaina didn't attempt to "do the same thing the Horde did to Theramore". Garrosh gave them AMPLE time, and plenty of indication that the attack was coming, and only bombed the city after practically ensuring that the only people that would be left in it were military combatants. There were no civilians killed in the Theramore attack, as they were all evacuated well before shit went down. Jaina's response? Attempt to use the exact same weapon to wipe every man, woman and child in Orgrimmar (as well as most likely the combined Horde AND Alliance fleets) off the map using a tidal wave of enslaved water elementals, without a care in the world if the victims were combatants or not, or even involved or not.

If Jaina had attacked Orgrimmar as a military target, in the same manner as Garrosh attacked Theramore, then yes, I would applaud it as a smart strategic move. Instead, her attempted reprisal would have been the equivilent of Garrosh smuggling the bomb into Theramore on just any random day, and just flat out setting it off without any warning.

It would be like Your brother and My brother having a duel the death, and then you getting pissy because My brother brought a better weapon to the fight and won, so your response is to murder my entire family.

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Forsaken started this war and let's be honest - if Alliance would really commit to it, the Forsaken would stand no chance. 7th Legion and remains of Gilneas forces made it hard for Forsaken, add Stormpike Army and potential reinforcements and that's it. I don't see Blood Elves dieing for Forsaken plague.

Which war exactly did the Forsaken start? If you are talking about the Gilneas conflict, yes, they did start that one. Mainly because their Warchief commanded them to secure a port, and after the cataclysm brought down the wall, Gilneas was the closest one available.

If you are talking about the general conflicts in the Lordaeron area, then I hate to break it to you, but the Alliance started most of that shit. Most of the conflicts in that regards come down the the Forsaken (who are 95% comprised of actual Lordaeron citizens) defending lands that they have legitimate claim to from people who are trying to take those lands from them, simply because the other people refuse to recognize them as legitimate "persons" and instead regard them as unholy monsters.